Katja Boytler, associate director of Career Services at INSEAD, Europe campus

The European job market being harder to crack, a few international students at INSEAD Europe (France) and Asia (Singapore) have used rather creative ways to win over recruiters from their target sectors, says the school’s associate director of career services, Katja Boytler in a wide-ranging interview with PaGaLGuY about finding a job after INSEAD.

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Could you talk about your roles and responsibilities at INSEAD are? How does your department work across all the three campuses that you have?

My role is that I am associate director of career services for the Europe campus. I oversee all our activities here. For any student based here, I work with them on the careers curriculum and career outreach with my team as well, who advise the students and reach out to companies. We are a global team of 27 individuals, with 17 on this campus and 10 in Singapore. So we have a mirror organisation between Fontainebleau and Singapore. We have one director who is global. I head the Europe campus and I have a counterpart in Singapore who is doing the same over there. On each side, we typically have a team that is split between those who do more of the corporate outreach and advising students and the operational aspects of Career Services.

We have an MBA programme of 1,000 students. We have an executive MBA so we also advise our students in the executive MBA and we also have a dedicated person for alumni career services. So it’s quite a comprehensive team and very much a mirror organisation across the two campuses. Like me, all my team members will also have counterparts to their roles in Singapore.

As for the Abu Dhabi campus, right now a lot of things are happening at that campus. It just started this year so obviously, there’s going to be an increased focus on Abu Dhabi. There’s also something in the pipeline about getting a person to do business development for a limited time frame to build the market in Abu Dhabi and the Middle East.

How does a typical job search go for a student at INSEAD?

We already reach out to students from the time they are admitted and start providing them information on self-reflection. We send them the CareerLeader test (a self-assessment test), provide them a lot of sector knowledge as well on a common platform which they can read about. For investment banking, we make particular effort considering that banks are aligned with the US recruitment cycle. For example in the December intake, we start working on student resumes before they arrive and organise investment banking trips to London and Hong Kong. So when they arrive, we are in time to aim at the banks who come on campus to recruit those who are interested.

This year, we just introduced a new initiative. The weekend before they actually arrived on campus, we did an internship boot camp for the December batch.

Besides this, we follow any classical career development cycle if you like, starting with self-exploration, understanding your skills, your motivators, your values and getting a full picture of yourself as a person. Following that, we go into more exploration as to what could this translate into – what are the kind of jobs and functions, where do MBAs go to and how can I learn more about my triggers and my interests as a student in terms of what my career could be.

Then we go into planning. We work a lot on resumes, the pitch and how you tell your story, how do you sell yourself and what is the value you bring to the recruiters after which we go into the execution. In a classical scenario, we have three on-campus recruitment campaigns in a year. We have the early internship recruitment in Jan-Feb which is primarily for the I-banks. From March to June, we have a campaign for internships for the December class and full-time for the July class. Again in September to November, we run a full time recruitment campaign for the December class. So it’s actually quite an active year with such a short programme of 10-12 months.

In the self-reflection period, students would get access to our career coaches. They get a session or two or how many ever they need. But typically they need only one or two sessions where they would talk about themselves and all the reflection they’ve done. They have access to our sector advisors throughout the year. So once they’ve decided the sector, they get advice on how companies from that sector recruit, who are the companies we are working with to recruit on-campus or off-campus. Obviously, you have to diversify your job search. You cannot just settle with on-campus opportunities. You should also think about what else is out there. There might be recruiters who don’t come to INSEAD but will have great opportunities to offer. We work very closely with students and given the volume we have, we do have a personalised approach with many of them in order to help them through that process.

Does the process differ for the two intakes?

The only thing that differs is that for the December class, we have internships. For the July students, we concentrate more on getting them prepped for rotational programmes that companies have because many are aligned to the US recruitment cycles and hence they recruit in the fall season. As a general rule, the frameworks are the same but the timings differ because of the breaks they have. Otherwise, they get the same offer.

Does Career Services also participate in the admissions process?

We are not that closely interlinked as is the case in other schools. We do participate sometimes and give inputs to the admissions committee on which profiles might work well and which ones might be more challenging, just to give them an idea of what a good profile is to get admitted. We might also become involved in instances on waitlisted students just to give a second opinion. But not as a fixed place on the committee.

How do you help students who are looking for opportunities outside the regions where INSEAD has campuses?

The MBAs start on one campus for the first four months after which they can swap campuses in the next six months and also with other schools we partner with. We do find students who are currently in France but would like to go to Asia or the other way round. What we always advise them is that the best approach is to be on the campus where they’d like to end up with a job after graduation. For first round job interviews, we have great facilities for video conferences. It’s not a problem for the first or second rounds. But there does come a point where recruiters will invite prospective students to their offices. As you know in Asia, face-to-face networking is much more important.

Does the job search process of the students who do internships differ? Do they find jobs more easily as compared to the July batch which does not intern?

There’s no significant difference. The July students are equally successful and actually end up graduating with almost higher or equal numbers as compared to the December class.

Is there a higher yield of career changes as a result of the internships?

Not necessarily. It’s true that career changes will profit from internships because they build new skill sets and go out and prove that. When you look at numbers, we do have a high number of career changes for either class. We haven’t seen any significant difference between the two.

What is the most misunderstood thing about Career Services and its role?

I think one of the things is that we’re seen as merely practical, someone whom you go to for practical information. I would like to think of us much more as a partner in their journey or process. There are many more things they can do with us. Once they start seeing us differently, we start having very different conversations with them and we can help them much more in that journey. We have worked a lot on an individual level with students who have made very significant career changes such as from I-banking to chocolate factories, or from military to retail, etc. There’s a lot more that can be done but we are seen more as a practical service rather than as a partner.

How has the role of INSEAD Career Services changed as a result of the economic upheavals since 2008?

In terms of organisation, we haven’t changed much. But we’ve gone from being a mere administrative department with very few team members to being a more professional service where we really start working with companies for their talent acquisition, and with students in terms of where they want to go in life. Following the financial crisis, we haven’t reorganised ourselves much. Obviously, we are looking harder at newer segments in the market and we’ve introduced an entrepreneurial corner at our career fair where entrepreneurs can come with opportunities for the summer and full-time. We are also developing the small and medium business segment as well because that is also where the up and coming opportunities are for MBAs across the world. I think after the 2008 crisis, the number of people going into finance has reduced. Now we are back to 23% finance jobs in 2011. But the number of people going into technology and consumer goods has increased. So they’ve kind of balanced themselves out between the two of them.

Has the geographical composition of final job destinations changed?

Not significantly. If you look at it over time, the Singapore campus was started in 2000. Over time, we have seen it grow and now almost 25% of our students go there. There have been small changes to Western Europe but we haven’t seen the full impact on anything yet. It might change in the future but I really can’t comment on that. It has been fairly stable. We had briefly seen a peak in the Middle East but it went down again. The peak was in 2009-10 where we saw a huge uptake in consulting, energy and healthcare. Then it started slowing down again not in terms of opportunities, but in terms of where the students are looking to go after graduation. We also saw a significant difference between the 2010 and 2011 with an increase in people starting their own ventures.

How have tighter work visa regulations in some European countries affected the chances of finding work here for international INSEAD graduates?

I think it’s very country-specific. What you are alluding to are the rules around work permits for the UK. Now, you can only come into the UK if you’re sponsored by the company. We have statistics on what the impact was due to changes in that policy. So again, I’m looking at historical data and while we saw a dip in the non-Europeans going into the UK, it’s actually grown again in 2011. Whether that will continue is going to be a challenge. It’s a game of understanding the kind of value they can bring to companies, having real conversations, diversifying the job search and not merely applying to jobs that are posted online because it might be a screening criterion. It’s quite easy for company HRs to say, “Okay, he’s coming from outside and I can’t go through the whole process of work permits so let’s drop him straightaway.” If you’re really determined and know what you want to do and have the right conversations with the right people, they are willing to go a long way to make it work. So we are still seeing quite a few non-European students finding opportunities in Amsterdam, London, Paris, etc. Markets are certainly difficult in Europe but there are still opportunities. But we will have to see over time if there’s an impact, when we are really looking at data.

In your view, what are the international students who are finding jobs in Europe doing right?

I think it’s their determination, perseverance and not giving up and not saying I can’t do it because of work permits. It’s about really digging into what their skills are and what they bring to the table and what are the kind of companies they want to work for. Also, there’s a bit of luck, ending up in front of the right people who will have the power to hire you. I think the whole game of recruitment has changed from the traditional applying for a job on a job board to diversifying and finding creative ways to approach companies and selling your skills.

How important is it to know the local language for someone who is trying to break into the European job market?

It’s important but it depends on the kind of job. If you’re looking for a job that has client interfacing, speaking the local language is paramount. You can’t go and work in France and go out selling to people unless you speak the local language. If you’re working on projects where you are sent out, you might be able to get along with basic knowledge. But it is a huge advantage.

Is it easier or harder for international student from Asia to find a job in Europe as compared to how it was 5 years ago?

I think it’s a mix. Again, if I go back to the UK example, it’s going to be harder. Before, it was easier to go into London with an MBA in hand. But we are also seeing a lot of investments coming in from China into Europe. The wave has turned and this could create a lot of opportunities for students from Asia to work in Europe. So it’s a balance again. I think it’s challenging and people’s anxieties on the job market don’t help. People might hold on to their jobs for longer so there’s less movement in the whole job market. It’s something we are carefully monitoring and helping students overcome. And if they can’t, we advise students to go to a country where they can work in an international company and then work on internal transfers to another geography. In many companies, it’s a lot easier that way.

How easy is it for an Asian student to find a job in France?

It’s a good question. I have seen a lot of interesting things happen. For Asian students, it depends on knowing what they want to do in France, why they want to work here and what is their commitment to France as well. Do they speak the language and what is the kind of function they want? I have seen a Korean girl working on electronics in Korea wanting to do cosmetics in France. She speaks average French and she got an interview with the CEO of a company who’s also an INSEAD alumnus. Through networking, she presented her case really well. She had done great research on organic cosmetics in Asia, positioned the company in Asia etc. He got so excited and liked her so much, he actually had five interviews and she got an offer the next day. Is that always going to happen? Not necessarily. It goes back to understanding the value you can bring and what you want to do. Just knocking on doors and applying for jobs online, competing with French people, is not going to work.

What’s an example of a ‘creative way’ using which students are reaching out to companies?

From my perspective, it about getting real intimate knowledge of who you are. What attracts you to a job or company or function? You need to understand what you want to go towards. If you say you want to go to an industry because it’s modern and my friends are talking about it, it’s difficult. If you can really identify what it is that you want – either the product you want to work with or a function you want to have – it’s a lot easier to apply your own skills on that.

It would also require a lot of talking to people, not necessarily to HR but to line managers. You need to understand a company’s challenges, what they are trying to achieve, either starting with reducing costs or building clients or trying to break into a new market. What is it that you as an individual can do for them and help them win on their challenge? It’s the willingness to persevere and not to say that “I want a certain job at a certain salary.” But rather that “I’m willing to take stop gaps or work for free for a while or anything that will allow me to break into the industry.” There’s another student who was in the military and wanted to go into retail. He knew which company he wanted to join in France so he had done a whole study on their business. He saw what was challenging in the strategy and where he could do things. He networked and talked to many people in order to navigate through the organisation until he could actually land the job he wanted.

We had an I-banker who wanted to go into the chocolate business. She worked for free in Fontainebleau locally for a famous chocolate maker. She just went to them and said, “I love chocolates. Can I come and work for you for free? I can learn French and touch chocolates and it makes me happy.” She’s now got their name on her resume which was a door-opener when she went to conferences with other big chocolate makers in the world. She went through several stop gaps, intermediate jobs and finally is doing what she loves – working for one of the biggest chocolate makers in the world in business development. If you really believe in what you want to do, anything is possible. Do you really want work to be everything in your life or do you want to have a balance and be a whole person doing something else as well?

Has the time that students spend on finding jobs increased in recent times?

I’ve been here for five years. When I look at the past two batches, what we typically see is that in the first three months after graduation, a lot of things are moving. I haven’t had a feeling that the number of students looking for jobs for a long time has changed significantly. I think it’s a question of self-discipline and how much time you want to dedicate to job searching. As I mentioned, it’s about values and what you offer to the companies. It’s not just about coming in, going for campus recruitment and coming out with an offer. It’s not that automatic anymore. A lot of thinking has to go into the process.

Has the number of companies that recruit on campus changed?

2009 was a rough year. Since then, we’ve seen a decent increase over the years. We have stayed flat and we are still working out reservations for this campaign. But it has been flat over the years and might’ve gone a bit up in 2010 and 2011.

What percentage of the recruitment happens on campus?

We would see around 54-56% find jobs through Career Services and alumni. The rest comprise people who go back to previous employers, people who go back to family businesses, people who start their own enterprise or use their own personal networks to find jobs after INSEAD.

For those who use their own personal networks, what kind of money, time and travel investments does it take?

I think it’s a mix. Once people know what they want to do, they will start. If they want to stay in something where they have helpful people in their network, they will obviously connect through Skype or phone. There might be a point where you have to travel. For example, a student in the January 2011 class went and spent a break in Brazil working his own network because he had a very specific target. He was already well connected and wanted to stay in a similar industry. He spent that break very successfully and ended up with five offers in-hand through his own personal networks by talking to people. He had set it all up from a distance and then went on there.

Do you find students with career expectations that are unrealistic in today’s context?

In terms of expectations, I would probably say that it is best to know the market you’re entering into. Don’t carry an idea of Europe as the land of opportunities where jobs are going to fall out of the sky. It’s a question of understanding the kind of industries here and what it is that you’re struggling with right now. I’m sure a lot of talent from outside Europe can help it grow again. Right now, companies are struggling with cost reductions and trying to find the best ways to grow again. If you can bring these skills to the table, you would be valuable to companies in Europe.

Also do keep an open mind. If you have tried to break into certain industries and it’s not working, think about what could your stepping stone be and how you could break in at a later stage. Can you work for an international company and get transferred to Europe later? Why do you want to come to Europe? I think these are important questions to ask oneself. It should not just be out of fashion. Question yourself on why you want to transfer and work here.