Equity Markets

Hi,
this thread has become somewhat famous 70+ posts and 1000+ visits god going folks 😃
some i know would be off
snan - iima

2. is sensex price (market price of scrip) wighted average of 30 stocks or market value (market cap.) weighted average of 30 stocks.

cheers
:)


Haylo.....Are the results out yet ??!!!

On a more serious note..for ur second query..as tab told its indeed market cap based...(weighted average of mar cap to be precise....)......Total mar cap of the 30 selected companies is divided by a factor called Index Divisor..thts why u get values like 6000 or 5850 or whtever....the factor connects the index to the base period which is 1978-79...this is wht is often written as 78-79 = 100..tht is total mar cap of selected scrips at the start of BSE divided by this factor was 100...(or to be more correct the factor was selected thus!)......thts bout it !! As simple as tht !!!...but the thing gets absolutely mind boggling whn things like bonus shares/adjustments/stock splits/rights issue etc.............i want to learn the mechanism..but thought i might wait till my Fin courses are over !!!

chao

suhas...

Hi all,

I need to clear out some doubts wrt to the sensex..please help me out:

1. Is the 30 script sensex dynamic???..i.e. can some script from these 30 move out and another come in.

2. I realize that the sensex is determined by market cap of these stocks but wat is the criteria for selecting these stocks. Having a good mix across industries, providing a comprehensive view of the markets could be one OR the sensex is formed by the companies which have the largest market cap.

3. Wat if some company in the sensex defaults or is stuck in some scam/scandal??? wat happens then..is the co taken out???

I have several more doubts but all of those depend on the answer to the first question..is the 30 stock sensex dynamic!!

-Kanti

It is all abt making fast money.
Read the rosy story in any of the Bmagazine.Get excited and invest money just by dialling
a local number.
Tomorrow is a day of repentance.
See if i m getting an extra bread sb at the other end will be
sleeping hungry.
Seein the listing of IPO of Patni people would have lost interest in the IPO which was expected to
bring abt profit ion most of the cases.
Now listin of Biocon has again brought abt same zeal in the people
to buy it from IPO
But beware the IPO of NDTV may go like PATNI
The tide is keep on changing.....
Right from the day1 of the year 2004 it is expected for the sensex to touch the psychological mark of
6000 but unfortunately it has started moving to touch 5000 leave aside the prediction of 8000

Its not a disappointing message neither it connotes any negative sense but it is just a paradigm.
I hope i will start makin profit once the market will come outof ripples and take a jump.

Hi all,

I need to clear out some doubts wrt to the sensex..please help me out:

1. Is the 30 script sensex dynamic???..i.e. can some script from these 30 move out and another come in.

2. I realize that the sensex is determined by market cap of these stocks but wat is the criteria for selecting these stocks. Having a good mix across industries, providing a comprehensive view of the markets could be one OR the sensex is formed by the companies which have the largest market cap.

3. Wat if some company in the sensex defaults or is stuck in some scam/scandal??? wat happens then..is the co taken out???

I have several more doubts but all of those depend on the answer to the first question..is the 30 stock sensex dynamic!!

-Kanti


Answer :- Yes..sensex is dynamic...its updated on a regular basis ..removing the ones which doesnt fall into the "Acceptance criterions" and adding new oens which would give a better "trailer" for the full lenght movie tht is the stock market !! :-p..
....actually u cud have thought it out for urself...sensex wudnt have had any new eco companies in the gud old days right ?? ..but today u have infy/wipro/drl/etc.....so obv. its very dynamic to reflect present day scenarios fo market !!

Q.2 :- http://bsewebx.bseindia.com/faqs/sect4.asp#4.3....Comprehensive listing conditions !!...no point in me copying + pasting it here rite ?? if u have any specific queries after going thro it i shall be happy to answer

Q3:- Yes..thy will be removed to pave way for others !!


Cheers

soooHASSS
Haylo.....Are the results out yet ??!!!

yaar u will get thru 😃

.............i want to learn the mechanism..but thought i might wait till my Fin courses are over !!!


yes both u and mailtabrez are correct that its Market value wighted average unlike dow jones which is a price value weighted average.

Market value weighted average gives weight to each stock in its index portfolio on the basis of its market cap.
i.e if u invest in the each scrip of the portfolio based on the market cap the ur returns (excluding dividents) is equal to the % change in the index.

well ill explain thru a very simple example
lets say index has two stocks
name\no. of outstanding shares\price of each share\ market cap
A --- 1000 - 50 -- 50,000
B --- 800 - 75 -- 60,000
so u can see weight of B > A
Total market cap is 110 , 000 => base value say 100
now after some time share of A rise by 20% => 60 and share of B goes down by 20% => 60
so ur total market cap is 60 * 1000 + 60 * 800 = 108, 000

so now ur index value is (108,000/110,000) * 100 = 98.18

so now u see that even if both the share experinced same increase and decrease there was a net decrease in the index value of 1.82 points.
ie u have made -ve returns pf -1.82% because ur portfolio was more heavily invested in stoack of B (becuase it had more weight in the index).

Lets come to stock split lets say B has a stock split in ratio 1:1 ie now there are 1600 (800*2) shares of B. Lets say price of each share after split is 30 (60/2)
total market cap is : 60 * 1000 + 1600 * 30 = 108, 000 => index = 98.18
so u see a stock split had no effect on the returns provided after a stock split share of price does not rise.
-------------Error corrected --------------------------------------------------
in case of bonus issue and rights issue the index gets adjusted.
let us say B issues 100 shares worth 30 then the base market cap would be changed to ( 108, 000 + 100 * 30) / 98.18 (old base) = 113,060
This is done so that now ( 108, 000 + 100 * 30) = 111,000 should be equal to 98.18

now the figures are as folowed
A --- 1000 - 60 -- 60,000
B --- 1700 - 30 -- 51,000
Total = 111,000 base = 113,060 index still = 98.18

now lets say A increase by 20% and B decrease by 20% (same as before)
A => 72 B => 24
Total market cap = (1000 * 72 + 24 * 1700) = > 112,800
now ur index is (112,800/113,060) * 100 = 99.77

so same increase and decrease has given u returns of (99.77 - 98.1 /98.18 = 1.61% unlike last time of -1.8%
this is because now ur portfolio is more heavily invested in B
so one has to change his portfolio as stock of a share rise/fall, as stock splits occur and as rights or new issues come .

any way this is a smallish example.
hope it helps
Sensex is more complicated as it takes free float into consideration.
would talk bout that some times later

further complication comes once stock replacement takes place (I have to study that)

so now u see how 100 in 78 -79 is 6000 today .. (base has been changed so many times + stock price have risen)

btw
no one has answered my first question

cheers
:)

ps: this is my own example and there may be error in my application of the theory .. please correct me if i am wrong (

Dude...that was a good explanation!!
Thx...


1. suppose you are in a tax bracket of 28% .
which would be better investment 6% taxable or 4% tax free ??



assuming, the tax rate is uniform, won't 6% taxable be better?... 6*(1-0.2 > 4

vishal

PS: edited for a typo

1. suppose you are in a tax bracket of 28% .
which would be better investment 6% taxable or 4% tax free ??



assuming, the tax rate is uniform, won't 6% taxable be better?... 6*(1-0.2 > 4

vishal

PS: edited for a typo


yes thats right
simply put:
say u have 100 bucks.
in taxable ull make it 106 and net money ull left would be 106*.72 = 76.32
in tax free it would be 4 + 100*.72 = 76
so u gain is .32 %

correct me if i am wrong

Ok here are two concept check questions :)

1. What is difference between ROC and ROCE (if any) ?

2. What is difference between net assets and net worth (if any) ?

:)
PS: all these (previous post too) are my own framed questions, so are the answers .. so bhool chook maaf

1. What is difference between ROC and ROCE (if any) ?


Difference between ROC and ROCE:

ROC: Rate Of Change ->

Rate of change is an indicator to gauge market momentum. It is given by the following formula:

ROC = Today's closing price / Closing price Y days ago

ROC divides the latest price by a closing price Y days hence, if both values are equal, RoC is 1. If today's price is higher, then RoC is greater than 1. And, if today's price is lower, then RoC is less than 1. The slope of the line that connects the daily RoC values graphically illustrates whether rate of change is rising or falling.

ROCE: Return On Capital Employed ->

ROCE = EBIT / (Total assets - Current liabilities)

EBIT: Earnings Before Interest and Tax.

ROCE should always be higher than the rate that the company borrows at, otherwise any increase in borrowings will reduce shareholders' earnings.

-Kanti

PS: Hey Snan, I should have easily realized the fact that sensex is dynamic..how stupid of me

2. What is difference between net assets and net worth (if any) ?


Net Worth: The amount by which an individual's assets exceed his liabilities.

Net Assets: Didn't understand wat u exactly mean by net Assets...is it Net Asset Value??

Another one from my side:

1. Wat is the difference between ADRs, GDRs and IDRs??

-Kanti

a=american g=global(i guess) i=indian DR= depository reciepts......dont ask me wat these are...... ...same old reason ENGG hoon na

hi,
wow so much to read and ponder over.
mailtabrez, i think we both r in same league (league of knowledgeless gentelmen).
all these fundas r gr8 fr us ignorant engineers.
btw, gr8 post guys.
i myself is a student and hence not capable of investing in market.however will try to start soon.am BULLish on market. pick : communications and textile. tries to focus on these.
bharti vindicated my stand on telecom and hoping that arvind will vindicate me in textile (finger crossed). looking fr another good pick in textile.

btw, don't think that IDR means indian d r. or is it .
mux

Quote:

1. What is difference between ROC and ROCE (if any) ?



Difference between ROC and ROCE:

Kanti your ROCE is spot on 😃
ROC is Return on Capital => PAT (or net profit)/ (Stock holder equity + total debts)

no denominator of both ROCE and ROC is almost same
from Balance sheet
Total Assets = current liabilities + long term liabilities + stock holders equity
=> Total Assets - current liabilities = long term liabilities + stock holders equity
now long term liabilities => total debts + others (Like minority interest)
these others are almost negligible compared to rest and in some firms totall absent

so in my guess difference between ROC and ROCE is only the numerator.


Net Worth: The amount by which an individual's assets exceed his liabilities.

Net Assets: Didn't understand wat u exactly mean by net Assets...is it Net Asset Value??

Net worth is something which is applicable to the share holders of the company
Net worth => total stock holders equity

Net assets => Total tangible assets - total liabilities
or in other words the book value of the firm
Total assets = fixed assets + current assets + intangible assets (including things like goodwill and other intangible assets like brand value patents etc etc )

so Net assets includes only the tangible part applicable to the share holders.

1. Wat is the difference between ADRs, GDRs and IDRs??

These recipts let the foreign players participate in the indian equity market.
Its some thing like that (A borkering agency buys a bulk of these shares and take them to the bourses of other countries and sell them to the interested foriegn investers)
Why all this is done is simmply because every company likes diverese people investing in it. (so its(ADR/GDR) is a very nice way of letting foreign investers investing in your equity from their market.

now say the price of a equity share in indian market is 100, which => 2$ in america which would be very less compared to price at which simmiler companies stock is traded in their market. So it may not be appealing to them so these are issued in a ratio 1: 10 (say) ie one ADR/GDR => 10 indian equity shares and price becomes 20$

so thats ADR and GDR (american and global) (american are traded on american stock exchange and global are traded on other foreign exchanges)

another question from my side.

lets say you have 10, 000 Rs with you.

You have decided to invest 4,000 in the risk free fixed deposit of SBI with annual return of say 8%
Rest 6,000 you have decided to invest in equity say TATA.
Using historical data you have found that the equity's average annual return is at a risk premum of 10% while standard deviation is at 20%.

Now what would be rate of return and standard deviation of your investment.
Think about it.

More later
cheers
😃


Wat is the difference between ADRs, GDRs and IDRs??


Ace has explained ADRs and GDRs in detail, IDRs work the same way as the other 2 but it stands for INTERNATIONAL DRs and can be traded all over Europe.


What is difference between ROC and ROCE (if any) ?


These acronyms do confuse me frm time to time..ROC would be Return On Capital and RoC would be Rate of Change.


lets say you have 10, 000 Rs with you.

You have decided to invest 4,000 in the risk free fixed deposit of SBI with annual return of say 8%
Rest 6,000 you have decided to invest in equity say TATA.
Using historical data you have found that the equity's average annual return is at a risk premum of 10% while standard deviation is at 20%.

Now what would be rate of return and standard deviation of your investment.


My take on this..not sure with the answers:

Risk Free Deposit of 4000 will yield 4320 at 8%.

Returns from 6000 invested in equity at 10% risk premium: 600
Standard deviation 20% hence, returns range frm 480-720.

Totalling up: 10,000 invest would give anything between 10,800 - 11,040

Wat say Ace???

-Kanti

guys,
market is rocking today due to exit polls.
guess they r more dangerous to us than to politicians .
anyway, whats ur thought?

i think it is gr8 time to pick up good stuff.

muks

guys,
market is rocking today due to exit polls.
guess they r more dangerous to us than to politicians .
anyway, whats ur thought?

i think it is gr8 time to pick up good stuff.

muks


Most of the growth projecttion were based on NDA getting clear majority....with tht loking exceedingly difficult wait for a rerating before commiting fresh exposures...if some asses like Mulayam singh and other unbearable thingies from bihar and Up is gonna have a say in running India for the next 5 years i can smell a 3500 in the horizon...
wait and pray tht NDA comes back with atleast 270+

Its never a good time to invest with so much uncertainity in the air..
After all the Indian Markets(or for that matter markets world over) are driven more by sentiment than reason. Even good corporate numbers will not be enough to spruce up the market if it sees a hung parliament in the future..

Mulayam, Mayawati and Laloo...god save our country frem these people.
I have one option to take care of them :2gunfire:

guys, don't get too worried abt the exit polls. remember what happened in chattisgarh :wink: .. but seriously, if thr's a hung parliament... there are a lot of chances that sensex will fall below 5000.... 😞 😞 ... khair if you are in it for the long haul... hang on thr...

vishal

LOL.
guys, do u really believe that only bjp can make india shine.or that india shining was due to efforts of nda only(ya,they did good but i think it was unavoidable). and mulayam and laloo don't understand a shit about economy and any finance minister worth his salt won't heed to them. my take is that fin minister will be either jaswant or manmohan and these two r no idiots. govt won't affect economy(only don't let those communists come in govt). our corporates r going international now and effect will be only in some sectors only.
and ya, the news guys r making a fool of themselves with the varied outcome of exit polls.sahara-70 and ndtv-50.lol. couldn't better that.toi coming with average takes the cake.

mux