hello bacardisprite,
I am an electrical engineer with 2 .5 yrs of hardcore technical experience in my field. No i was weighing my PG options and got a call frm UK uni of Strathclyde for their Power engineering with business program & another call for their Masters in business management program(MBM) ..i am confused as future carrer propects of both and other stuff....i read ur post on the options beyond MBA so asking for some advice! Pls guide!!!
If business research, analysis (and consulting long term) is the area you want to get into - I'd go with option 2.
All the best.
Cheerz
Hey!
I took the first offer. In terms of remuneration, the latter was prohibitive. Short sighted? May be. But given the fact that I am enjoying my work in the former, I hope I would be able to do something qualitative.
I intend to join certain professional bodies. As I work in Competitive Intelligence, I suppose joining SCIP (Society of CI Professionals) would be obvious? Is 12k worth of registration fee a sacrifice or sacrilege or investment? And yeah, I don't intend to join JUST for the NAME of it. As in for the sake of writing in my SOP. I want to be really good at CI. And write as much as I can regarding the domain.
I would also be interested in bodies pertaining to public health. Could you suggest something?
I feel I need deeper domain knowledge. Public Health Foundation India (PHFI) offers a distance learning PG diploma in epidemiology. wondering whether to study that in the meantime. What would you suggest? Hope my legs are not into too many boats.
Thanks!
1. So tell me, what is a "fast" industry?
If you want to do consulting, it is best to have experience and transferable skills from one industry that yoiu can apply relevantly to another. For e.g - the manufacturing excellence processes in automobiles can very well be taken to other precision & heavy machinery, and are increasingly being applied to areas like Pharma / Biotech, historically not known as centers for manufacturing excellence (statement applies to costs & supply chain efficiency, NOT quality where Pharma is paranoid). In short - no issues moving out of automobiles, but make sure you find ways to retain what you learnt within this industry, in the job, in school and as a consultant which you hopefully will become.
2. You said previously that you wanted to be a consultant... have you changed your mind already :-)?
a) skills, experience, excellence .... you'll make it.
b) first make up your mind... then apply to schools! My previous message on this stands (which was based on your consulting ambitions)....
c) they're challenging to get into.
All the best
Well, You would agree that automotive is not the most dynamic of industries. I'd want to shift to renewable energy in the nxt couple of years. Nevertheless, I am going to stick it out here for a while i suppose.
And on the second point, i was referring to pre-MBA work profile. Fortunately, i'll be shifting to a pure marketing role soon.
I would really appreciate if you could bear with me for a few more doubts :)
1. How can i upgarde my skills (analytical and soft)? There are few or none corporate training programs that fit the bill. Any certfictaions/courses that might be able to help?
2. The courses that you have recommended are essentially techno-commercial. Would enrolling for a more commercial (quasi-MBA) more favorable for the consulting ambition? Are there any schools/courses that you'd recommend for the same?
Look forward to hearing from you,
Cheers!
Well, You would agree that automotive is not the most dynamic of industries. I'd want to shift to renewable energy in the nxt couple of years. Nevertheless, I am going to stick it out here for a while i suppose.
And on the second point, i was referring to pre-MBA work profile. Fortunately, i'll be shifting to a pure marketing role soon.
I would really appreciate if you could bear with me for a few more doubts
1. How can i upgarde my skills (analytical and soft)? There are few or none corporate training programs that fit the bill. Any certfictaions/courses that might be able to help?
2. The courses that you have recommended are essentially techno-commercial. Would enrolling for a more commercial (quasi-MBA) more favorable for the consulting ambition? Are there any schools/courses that you'd recommend for the same?
Look forward to hearing from you,
Cheers!
No I wouldn't agree that the Automotive industry is not dynamic. Cars are as much an emotion for their drivers as they are technical for the companies that manufacture them 😃 Customer perception, expectations and never-before-seen level of awareness on issues like sustainability and emissions have driven, even forced car makers to design safer, more efficient and cleaner emitting cars. You will realize that when you shift to a marketing role soon.
Not trying to be a pain - but you're still not articulating your goals to me coherently. So tell me if I have understood you right - you want to get into marketing shortly (which you will soon?), then shift to renewable energy, then school, then consulting?
If this is the case - then get into marketing now learn the ropes, get hammered by consumers and if / when possible try understanding a pattern of emotions behind a car based on the expectations of car owners, and based on which they make their purchasing decisions - that's good marketing!
1) the biggest skill you can acquire in the next years is a foreign language. If you have worked in the auto industry - learning something like German or Japanese would be extremely helpful.....
If possible, get on product development / design projects (probably unlikely in India right now) around electric or other so-called renewable fuel consuming automobiles.... and spend time learning about the concept of renewable energy.
2) The programs I mentioned offer an MBA as part of the deal. Read their websites to find out more. I would always suggest to aim for the best schools.
Cheerz & Good luck
No I wouldn't agree that the Automotive industry is not dynamic. Cars are as much an emotion for their drivers as they are technical for the companies that manufacture them 😃 Customer perception, expectations and never-before-seen level of awareness on issues like sustainability and emissions have driven, even forced car makers to design safer, more efficient and cleaner emitting cars. You will realize that when you shift to a marketing role soon.
Not trying to be a pain - but you're still not articulating your goals to me coherently. So tell me if I have understood you right - you want to get into marketing shortly (which you will soon?), then shift to renewable energy, then school, then consulting?
If this is the case - then get into marketing now learn the ropes, get hammered by consumers and if / when possible try understanding a pattern of emotions behind a car based on the expectations of car owners, and based on which they make their purchasing decisions - that's good marketing!
1) the biggest skill you can acquire in the next years is a foreign language. If you have worked in the auto industry - learning something like German or Japanese would be extremely helpful.....
If possible, get on product development / design projects (probably unlikely in India right now) around electric or other so-called renewable fuel consuming automobiles.... and spend time learning about the concept of renewable energy.
2) The programs I mentioned offer an MBA as part of the deal. Read their websites to find out more. I would always suggest to aim for the best schools.
Cheerz & Good luck
Ok, point taken on the dynamism bit ;)
I'll try to articulate it better : I am shifting to marketing soon (from May to be exact and the role is product pricing and marketing). I want to work for a couple of morer years and hone my commercial&analytical; skills. Then hopefully i'll be able to join a good school, after which i'd want to work in the field of energy consultancy.
2. The reason i'm asking about certfications/other courses is that my undergrad grades are not exactly stellar. Although i've managed good scores in GMAT/GRE (760/1470), i have my doubts about my work ex clubbed with these would offset the undergrad curse.
Thanks agian :)
Cheers!
BE Mech with total 5 yrs of exp ( 3 yrs post graduation + 2 yrs pre graduation). My pre graduation exp is primarily cold calling and sales for a construction building material company. I dnt have such excellent acads , it took me 6 yrs to complete by BE , 10TH AND 12TH scored pretty averagely 77 % and 55 %.
But last three years I am involved in some hardcore consulting / concept selling / business development . I provide solutions ( IT tools ) to improve project management in Engineering and Construction companies . My interaction is 90% of the time with the C-, D- Level executives . For last one year I am with a company providing Lean and Green construction methodologies to E&C; companies . I am enjoying my work however the confusion in my mind now is :
My competitor's who are basically guys in the 35 -45 yr old bracket with Orcale / Microsoft take home some 40 lacs - 1cr as a salary on an annual basis. I understand I have only 3 yrs of exp compared to them but I have started my career in this niche segment , whereas others have started by selling some hardware and then enterd this niche segment. Now the question is how should I propel myself into that league ,
My current company is a small company but doing a big thing if you consider our Value proposition to the clients . Should I continue with them ?
Or as every one says should I jump to some branded company immaterial of the profile or role I get ?
To be true after being in this segment , I am not enticed in box selling or hardware selling where 90% of the time you interact with Procurement Managers at the client side and not the business owners .
I have been fortunate to have been trained and mentored by some highly exp sales guys from top IT companies , they strongly feel I should stick with Marekting / BD / Sales role because they say I got potential . Currently I am being mentored by one guy whom I report to ,a foreign national ( Ex VP Sales-Autodesk ) . So if I leave my current job for a branded company and I loose my interaction with my Mentor . He says , I am too young ( 26 yr old ) to be in this segment and hence I am facing obstacles even if I talk sense no egoistic Business owner is going to take me seriously .
I have never bothered for money however after 3 yrs now I feel I deserve to be working in the 6-8 lacs bracket at least . Now how do I get into this league is the question ?
I thought I should get into a big B School but again I am not very fond of competitive exams nor I am interested in a theoretic course . My acads are avg but when I spoke to some Deans and Admission officers of European colleges , they all find my profile very refreshing and interesting .
After , my MBA I really wish to be in Strategy consulting or heading business development activities of some company from India trying to establish itself in Europe or vice versa . I see good scope and lot of activity in this sector . Especially for European companies trying to enter India who might need some one who understand how the business owners think in India , a role which I experience day in and day out currently .
I came across Grenoble Ecole de Mgt from France , they were ready to exempt me for GMAT but when they saw my profile and my future plans they have asked me to look into and apply for
Msc Business development ( MSc in Business Development - Grenoble Business School, France ) and not the MBA .
I met the program director of the Msc BD program and even she strongly feels I should apply for a specialization and not a generic MBA course . Can we believe them ?
What would be your advise at this juncture ?
Should I continue working with my current company or should I move into a Branded firm irrespective of the product or role ?
Since , I have not taken any GMAT / CAT ( I have appeared for AIM - Manila entrance test but it didnt go good either ) I am skeptical that I sound desperate to get into some good B school ......
Since this year I have missed the dates for GMAT , my options are pretty limited .
University of Bath
Asian Institute of Technology ( Thailand )
Grenoble Ecole Management
AIM - Manila ( If I get through )
and other Msc programs.
Kindly advise !
(Note : I have tried to keep my story as small as possible , I understand you have a lot of eager posts waiting to be replied )
That is an interesting profile!
A few things - you're 26, while your contemporaries in the functional area are 10-12 years older. You're in a place they took several years to reach, and egoistic business owners or not, you're interacting with clients, which your contemporaries and competitors took years to reach.
Take a piece of paper and objectively list down the benefits and risks of leaving your current job for a "branded" company and keep the money out of it. Look at the qualitative advantages to your profile of staying on this job for 2-3 years longer and what you can learn & what skills you acquire over the next 2-3 years.
Next - on another piece of paper, try and articulate to yourself what difference you have made to your business in the last 3 years since graduation - in terms of the clients you have interacted with, and what business you have won or helped your colleagues and bosses win with your skills, direct support or client insight. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.
Third - with your mentor, he tells you about facing obstacles due to a perceived lack of skill / experience in the eyes of "egoistic" business owners. What advice does he give on dealing with this situation? Have you asked him? Ask him to take you on his sales calls and watch him at work. You might find that winning business is all about winning a relationship with the client. It's not only about what you can do for a client, its more about the opportunities for the client to derive value out of his business.
Next - enroll yourself for a foreign language class and acquire at least intermediate fluency (ability to conduct business conversation) in at least one language going forward. It will help you in the future.
You haven't said why you had to work during your BE. As long as you're able to articulate the circumstaces that forced you to work therefore take 6 years for a 4 year degree, you should be fine. Even so, I would recommend staying and growing in your current job for 2-3 years longer. Apart from the professional advantages of doing so, working 6+ years of experience ensures that the adcomm focuses on your experience and not your previous academics. It helps to have a good GMAT as it testifies not to any superior intelligence, but to a reasonable ability to go through the academic aspects of business school.
Given your profile - I don't think you should choose a no-name or 2nd tier school. Go to the best school you can, for an MBA with electives in technology management, finance & strategy - therefore MIT Sloan, Haas Berkeley, Ross Michigan, Johnson Cornell etc. With a good GMAT (further below), a set of good recommendations from those who really know and can comment on your skills, strengths and gaps, and clearly articulated essays on your goals, why an MBA and why at the time - I think you will swing an interview after which its yours to win / lose.
Don't be afraid of exams - the GMAT is not an intellectually difficult exam. Study for it, take a preparatory course if you have to, but attempt it because you can't get into any good school without it.
You're in a better place than you think.
Be more self-confident.
Good luck & Cheerz
hello bacardisprite,
I am an electrical engineer with 2 .5 yrs of hardcore technical experience in my field. No i was weighing my PG options and got a call frm UK uni of Strathclyde for their Power engineering with business program & another call for their Masters in business management program(MBM) ..i am confused as future carrer propects of both and other stuff....i read ur post on the options beyond MBA so asking for some advice! Pls guide!!!
Some questions:
What is your field? What are your career goals? Without articulating those, it's quite impossible for anyone to advise about anything.
Did you ask such questions before applying for these courses? Or did you apply without any research?
Think, come back with more clear statements of goals and we'll revisit the above questions.
Cheerz
Hey!
I took the first offer. In terms of remuneration, the latter was prohibitive. Short sighted? May be. But given the fact that I am enjoying my work in the former, I hope I would be able to do something qualitative.
I intend to join certain professional bodies. As I work in Competitive Intelligence, I suppose joining SCIP (Society of CI Professionals) would be obvious? Is 12k worth of registration fee a sacrifice or sacrilege or investment? And yeah, I don't intend to join JUST for the NAME of it. As in for the sake of writing in my SOP. I want to be really good at CI. And write as much as I can regarding the domain.
I would also be interested in bodies pertaining to public health. Could you suggest something?
I feel I need deeper domain knowledge. Public Health Foundation India (PHFI) offers a distance learning PG diploma in epidemiology. wondering whether to study that in the meantime. What would you suggest? Hope my legs are not into too many boats.
Thanks!
Excellent.... you have chosen your passion over a more predictable career path :-). Hope this inspires other posters as well.
I am not particularly knowledgeable on professional bodies in CI or Epidemiology, so don't feel qualified to advise on this (apologies). Would strongly suggest you talk to experts in both fields and get their opinion.
Congratulations once again.
Ok, point taken on the dynamism bit ;)
I'll try to articulate it better : I am shifting to marketing soon (from May to be exact and the role is product pricing and marketing). I want to work for a couple of morer years and hone my commercial&analytical; skills. Then hopefully i'll be able to join a good school, after which i'd want to work in the field of energy consultancy.
2. The reason i'm asking about certfications/other courses is that my undergrad grades are not exactly stellar. Although i've managed good scores in GMAT/GRE (760/1470), i have my doubts about my work ex clubbed with these would offset the undergrad curse.
Thanks agian :)
Cheers!
Much better! Now the career flow and goals make sense.
Good GMAT, so an adcomm shouldn't worry about your ability to survive an academic environment. As for less-than stellar academics, the best way to deal with it is to present 5-6 years of solid post university experience (so about 2-3 more thaan what you have now), a bag of success, achievements clearly pointing to what difference you made to your team and organization; and a clear view of your goals and how an MBA helps you achieve them.
Stay patient, stay diligent, be disciplined, focus clearly.
All the best.
@ BACARDI Sprite
Thank You for such a wonderful insight . If you provide professional counseling sessions then kindly share your contact details in a private message .I would like to get in touch with you !
Hi all, just wanted to know that , as am planning to join some coaching for my gmat preparation , i came across few coachings who boast that their faculty , themselves have got 780, or 790 , score on gmat, , but are not showing the score card when asked for that !!!!!!!!
Hi friends planning to join some coaching for my mba preparation, confused a bit to join where, some coachings are there who are boasting about their faculty that they have secured 790 on gmat itself, i have a doubt, cos when asked they are not showing their score card, so no authentication of their,truthfulness.Any body having knowledge , of some really good coaching centers kindly let me know.
hi, neha you are absolutely correct , same thing happened with me, its pytha guru na
@ BACARDI Sprite
Thank You for such a wonderful insight . If you provide professional counseling sessions then kindly share your contact details in a private message .I would like to get in touch with you !
I'm glad to see my advice helps, and thank you for the positive feedback. I don't counsel / coach as a matter of course / profession at this time. However, you're welcome to get in touch with me through the forum or PM.
All the best.
hi guys jamboreee is doing mba seminars at the islamic center at delhi , speakers from great colleges are coming there , gotta check it out!! its useful!!
hi again...
i completed B.E electrical and have an experience in core engg filed of condition monitoring with ABB Ltd.., for 2 .5 yrs now..but i was charged up abt it initially..however,..due to lack of new avenues in our small unit..i am not happy by the way things have shaped up...and so since MBA was the hot cookie at the moment..i thot of changing my path and geting into stuff like marketing research etc..i had got thru SPGMBA..but left it hoping for bttr CAT results..which i sadly screwed up...and meanwhile i was applying to Unis in UK and France..from which i got calls in:
1.Ecole des mines de nantes,france.
2.Strathclyde Uni..for their Msc in power engg...
3.strathclyde again for their MBM..(but ppl said its not all dat cool aftr i have 2 yrs of exp with a company like ABB..!):(
3. Cardiff Uni..for MBA..(UK)
4. leicester Uni..for engg..
so now i am left wid options...and my choice i think is dependant on getting a good job in UK for at least a yr..before i shift base bak...and definitely getting a better hike in my sal...
the top priority being job satisfaction...
I am worried that i shud not land up with saem situation aftr the eng degree ..in India..dats y i was looking at newer unknown avenues of MBA...mktg etc...
Pls help!!!!
Some questions:
What is your field? What are your career goals? Without articulating those, it's quite impossible for anyone to advise about anything.
Did you ask such questions before applying for these courses? Or did you apply without any research?
Think, come back with more clear statements of goals and we'll revisit the above questions.
Cheerz
Dear Baccardisprite,
I have been reading this link and your detailed feedback for MBA aspirants and really appreciate your efforts.
I am seeking some advice for my younger brother. I am not into a management/ commerce background and therefore have limited knowledge in this field.
My brother is 22 years old and currently into his last semster of Masters of Management studies (MMS ) in mumbai, he has taken marketing specialisation in his final year
Prior to this he has done BMS- bachelor of management studies from Mumbai as well
He has done a couple of summer trainee internships while his study but no formal work experience as such.
He is very keen to move abroad for further education and possibly settle abroad.
The reasons are entirely personal as I am residing in the UK for last 7 years.
We have been looking at several Postgraduate Business courses here and are considering Msc International Business or Msc Marketing Communications.
I personally feel he would be better off doing a Finance/ Investment related course but this is not his field of interest.
I wonder what your thoughts are regarding choosing either IB / Marketing communication and what sort of opportunities would this provide after completion of studies.
Also do you think getting 1-2 year experience in India would be advisable prior to considering moving abroad?
I would really appreciate some feedback from you
Many Thanks
wrong post
Dear Baccardisprite,
I have been reading this link and your detailed feedback for MBA aspirants and really appreciate your efforts. I am seeking some advice for my younger brother. I am not into a management/ commerce background and therefore have limited knowledge in this field.
My brother is 22 years old and currently into his last semster of Masters of Management studies (MMS ) in mumbai, he has taken marketing specialisation in his final year. Prior to this he has done BMS- bachelor of management studies from Mumbai as well
He has done a couple of summer trainee internships while his study but no formal work experience as such.
He is very keen to move abroad for further education and possibly settle abroad. The reasons are entirely personal as I am residing in the UK for last 7 years.
We have been looking at several Postgraduate Business courses here and are considering Msc International Business or Msc Marketing Communications. I personally feel he would be better off doing a Finance/ Investment related course but this is not his field of interest. I wonder what your thoughts are regarding choosing either IB / Marketing communication and what sort of opportunities would this provide after completion of studies. Also do you think getting 1-2 year experience in India would be advisable prior to considering moving abroad?
I would really appreciate some feedback from you
Many Thanks
Sorry if I sound harsh, but if your brother wants to move abroad because you're abroad, that's the wrong motivation for a career / life and wrong reason to chase education to get there. He's been educating himself for 5 years, what more does he need to start a career at 22?
Further - if he's not passionate about a career in finance, no amount of persuasion & education will make him good at finance 😃
I recommend you to encourage your younger brother to start working and experiencing professional life in India, understanding the world around him, gain knowledge and skills over a 4-5 year period that he can then transfer towards a career abroad if/when possible. Let him work and understand what he really wants to do long term, then chase the education that will help him reach those objectives. In the meantime, let him gain other skills that a future employer will appreciate - e.g Chartered Institute of Marketing (www.cim.org.uk), a foreign language like German or French.
The UK is not the best job market in the world now unless he brings some unique or spectacular skill to the table. With neither work experience anywhere nor on-ground exposure to the UK, your brother will find it hard to get a job matching his skills and education (unless you can guarantee a good one for him). A Marketing or Marketing Comms job requires on-ground client facing & cultural exposure / experience in the UK. Secondly - he's a foreigner (non-EU), so in the current near disastrous job scenario in the UK, he's likely to face competition from local & EU graduates who will be preferred to non-EU candidates. Even if he finds a job in the UK after whatever Masters, he's unlikely to earn more than your average British Univ Graduate. In other words - going to the UK now is not likely to drive a major improvement in his life - personal, professional, financial or notional - apart from being close to you.
In short - tell your brother not to rush. Find work, learn a few things, achieve something in life, acquire skills employers will value (not a bank of degrees & qualifications) and then try making a move abroad - he will find his future environment more welcoming at that time, and will have the confidence to face challenges better at that time.
Cheerz & All the best to both of you.
B.E electrical and have an experience in core engg filed of condition monitoring with ABB Ltd.., for 2 .5 yrs nowdue to lack of new avenues in our small unit..i am not happy by the way things have shaped up...and so since MBA was the hot cookie at the moment..i thot of changing my path and geting into stuff like marketing research etc..i had got thru SPGMBA..but left it hoping for bttr CAT results..which i sadly screwed up...and meanwhile i was applying to Unis in UK and France..from which i got calls in:
1.Ecole des mines de nantes,france.
2.Strathclyde Uni..for their Msc in power engg...
3.strathclyde again for their MBM..(but ppl said its not all dat cool aftr i have 2 yrs of exp with a company like ABB..!):(
3. Cardiff Uni..for MBA..(UK)
4. leicester Uni..for engg..
so now i am left wid options...and my choice i think is dependant on getting a good job in UK for at least a yr..before i shift base bak...and definitely getting a better hike in my sal... the top priority being job satisfaction... I am worried that i shud not land up with saem situation aftr the eng degree ..in India..dats y i was looking at newer unknown avenues of MBA...mktg etc... Pls help!!!!
With ABB on your resume, the "ppl" are right, you should aim higher. I've highlighted the words & phrases you've used to indicate your confusion & lack of surety.
1. Talk to your manager and ask if there're avenues to take on other roles in ABB - like technical sales, that helps to put you in front of clients and offers you the opportunity for commercial experience.
2. If that doesn't work, try finding another job that matches where you want to go career wise and firm up your skills, achievements, career progress and a bag of success (which you can write in your essays) going forward. Then apply to a Masters program that fits with your career goals.
Cheerz & All the best