International educational options beyond the MBA

MBA
755
It's not a bad profile, so stop being underconfident. I won't suggest a laundry list of schools based on the above. Think carefully and let us know:

1) What (functionally) would you like to do? Going by your past and current, finance would probably be it, but you need to be 100% sure it's what you want to do long term!

2) What sort of company / enterprise would you like to work in? Corporate Finance / Control / Treasury or in a Financial Services / Banking / Securities industry etc?

3) Where (geography) would you like to work? If in India, going abroad at your age is pointless, you're better off studying in India in a Top 15-20 Indian School (CAT+) and getting a good job / career in India....

Not to be critical - while you implicitly admit your GMAT isn't high enough, what makes you think going to an "acceptable" program abroad is going to work for you (ahead of a strong / well-ranked / highly regarded program) ?? If your answer is "not much" - then it might be worth preparing for and making a genuine attempt at the GMAT again, and try scoring in the 700 range.

(Presuming you consider Finance a long term career) It's also worth working for 2-3 years longer, gain some real skills that an education will help complement as you make yourself a truly attractive catch for major employers at around age 28-30. I have said it before, employers will hire you 75% for your pre-MBA/pre-Master's experience, and 25% for the quality of the school. You want to give them as much of the 75% (through acquired skills / experience) and the best possible 25% (from the best possible school).

It's really not that difficult if you have the right guidance / coaching / preparation.

Going by the above, you sound like you want a Master's, but aren't quite clear why. Think carefully, answer the above questions for yourself and post again if you need assistance.

Other things you can consider in the next 2-3 years:

*CFA (Globally recognized Investment / Corp Finance qualification) or *CIMA/ACCA (2 of the world's largest accounting bodies, equivalents of India's ICWA / ICAI)
*Foreign Language (English, German, Spanish, Chinese).

Hope the above helps you
All the best
Baccardisprite

Thanks so much baccardisprite for a reply

I appologise that I came across as under confident...

Another GMAT shall happen with better preparation for sure...

I prefer Masters to gain academically... the more I work, more I miss the knowledge part of life..

A key university on my mind is University of St. Gallen, two courses I am eying are Masters in Economics or Masters in Banking and Finance

Will keep u posted for sure if any new developments happen at my end...

Thanks
756

do you really think cfa is useless without an mba ?????

758

Hi Baccardi,

I have been going through your post since some time and find it very informative.

Below are my details, would appreciate if you could advise me

Age:31
Exp: 9.5 yrs in IT (1.6 years in UK and 3 months in Netherlands, Rest in India, Managerial Experience: Around 2-3 yrs)
Domain : BFSI
B Tech (Electronics) : 72%
12th : 64%
10th : 70%
GMAT : Planning to write in June-2011

I am looking for MBA and post MBA my objective it to get into IT Consulting role in BFSI domian.
I read through details of PGPX courses from IIMs, what I find is these courses are intended to accelerate the career path of experienced managers, which is not something I am looking for, since I my goal is to get into IT consulting. Could you please advise, how the PGPX program can help me, or if it is not the right course for me, could you please suggest what would be the right course/college for me, I am open to India or Abroad, preferably for 1 yr courses.
I am still doing my research on European Colleges, but the job market does not seem to be very good since recession.


Thanks in Advance.

759

So we are going to back-up a bit and start afresh. This is a really useful thread for a lot of people, not for people to fight and bicker about. if you disagree, be polite and show why. DO NOT behave as a know-it-all. There are tons of people out here who know more than you except that they aren't attacking you as both of you seem to. You know whom i'm referring to.

If your discussion isn't adding value to the thread, take it to PMs. Those can also be reported for abuse so keep it proper and polite. The very fact that you are seeking a professional degree implies you have a certain amount of wisdom and maturity. Show it or leave the forum. We'd be a lot better without you.

This is a warning. The next time I will Ban everybody.

760
Hi Baccardi,

I have been going through your post since some time and find it very informative.

Below are my details, would appreciate if you could advise me

Age:31
Exp: 9.5 yrs in IT (1.6 years in UK and 3 months in Netherlands, Rest in India, Managerial Experience: Around 2-3 yrs)
Domain : BFSI
B Tech (Electronics) : 72%
12th : 64%
10th : 70%
GMAT : Planning to write in June-2011

I am looking for MBA and post MBA my objective it to get into IT Consulting role in BFSI domian.
I read through details of PGPX courses from IIMs, what I find is these courses are intended to accelerate the career path of experienced managers, which is not something I am looking for, since I my goal is to get into IT consulting. Could you please advise, how the PGPX program can help me, or if it is not the right course for me, could you please suggest what would be the right course/college for me, I am open to India or Abroad, preferably for 1 yr courses.
I am still doing my research on European Colleges, but the job market does not seem to be very good since recession.


Thanks in Advance.

Hi there,
I don't think you need an MBA to break into IT consulting.
Where do you plan to stay in the medium term? Is it India or Europe?
If it's in India the 1 yr Indian MBA programmes is still a good option for you (ISB, IIM-A, B and C)
In Europe things are quite difficult from an economic perspective and will be so at least for the next couple of years. also adding to the complication is that for non-EU nationals getting a work permit etc will be quite difficult.

My background: 13 yrs work ex in IT (11 in Europe), now moving to India and admitted to EPGP3@IIMB
761

why were some my posts deleted?
i did give some useful information

762
I assume you're about 21-22 and a recent university graduate.

Think about your early career (from now to say 2016). Do you have the opportunity to gain professional experience in Finance / Investment management now, when your body and mind would be most willing and primed to learn & acquire skills?

I'd always advise experience early on in life (say from the age of 21-26), then an MBA. Refer my comments about the 75% in earlier posts. A CFA is as good if not more applicable & valuable qualification for a long term career in Investment / Fund Management &/or equity research.

The Indian educational & professional environment is conducive to an MBA early on in one's life, while in most other countries, an MBA is an education post early career (4-6 years experience) to complement skills already gained over one's early career.

Think career first, then the right education to enable that career.

Ask yourself the right questions!

All the best
Baccardisprite


thank u sir for ur guidance.....i m a science graduate(biotechnology) so is it possible to get a job in equity research in india after cfa level 1????? is it true that cfa without a prestigious mba doesnt add much value???i m in a big dilemma as i dont want to go for mba right now...plz reply
763
why were some my posts deleted?
i did give some useful information


"some" would be the right word. 1 post added no value whatsoever, and 1 actually got personal. I've handed out Bans for a lot less in the past.
The same, or worse, applies to v2013.

I Repeat: Be informative, Be helpful or Get-out.

The original thread starter has an MBA from IMD and a solid 12+ years of experience. He has no reason to be here helping people yet he does. He doesn't flaunt his knowledge, he doesn't make it personal. Instead, he goes out of his way to help and advise. If you can contribute half of what he has, you'd be a lot more respected and listened-to.
764
Fair enough.... you can choose the US School from among the below criteria, note however that you're looking at 2 year full time programs:

- Universities having both a top 20 business school and a top 40 engineering school. The engineering schools list should be easily available on a US News and World Report publication (America's Best Graduate Schools 2011). Go through the list of the Top Engineering Schools in Comp Science & Industrial Engineering. Go through the list and look for the Engg schools attached to Universities with the Top business schools.... Reason is simple - the strong engineering schools will normally have something to do with the technology management curricula of the business schools of the same University.

- When you have listed the business schools as above, go to the careers website and look for the companies you'd like to work for (Tech Consulting, High-Tech products, Software or IT)....

- Cull the list to 4-5 schools and apply.

Ivey & Queens (both close to Toronto, Canada) are North America's (including the US) top 1 year MBA programs, so look at those as well. In the US, Cornell, Emory, and Kellogg offer the best known 1 year programs, but have specific eligibility criteria (like having a Bachelor's in Business, Econ or Finance).

All the Best
Baccardisprite

Thanks baccardisprite.
I have admits confirmed for 1 year Florida MBA and 1 year Hec Montreal.
Based on my profile and objectives what do you think is the right choice?

Profile:
---------
Age:34
Exp: 10.5 yrs, IT/consulting, managerial Experience: 3-4 yrs
Manage Offshore development center, 20-25 resources, 5.5 yrs in US experience, exp in working with 19 nationalities. managing projects of 1-4MUSD, leading workshops, JAD sessions etc.
GMAT: 680
TOEFL:105
Undergrad: CS Eng M.G University, India 72.84%
Post graduate Diploma: CDAC 73%
PMI Certified PMP

Objective:
----------
Obtain Senior management position driving customer relations and business in IT/Consulting or IT Product firms. Location Preference: 1. US 2. Canada

clarification Florida MBA -- 1 year full time UFL Hough MBA
765
soulreaver15 Says
thank u sir for ur guidance.....i m a science graduate(biotechnology) so is it possible to get a job in equity research in india after cfa level 1????? is it true that cfa without a prestigious mba doesnt add much value???i m in a big dilemma as i dont want to go for mba right now...plz reply


Getting into equity research (assuming for a bank, securities firm or investment fund) is a bit of a challenge straight out of school. A path of lesser resistance would be to get into a KPO outfit that has a lot of Banking / Finance / Securities and Consulting clients.... It may not mean a large salary immediate to short term, but this is probably among the best places to learn the nuts and bolts of financial analytics, econometrics etc.. at a young age. While on this job for 3-4 years, you could work towards the CFA qualification. After 3-4 years, you can take one of 2 routes, go for an advanced Masters in Finance or an MBA with elective specializations in Finance.

OR

IF you're in a rush for an MBA (and since you're young enough), prepare for and attempt entry into one of the Top Indian B-Schools for a 2 year PGP with financial electives + a potential internship in the finance space. Try getting into a Bank, Securities firm or Investment Fund.... Once you're there, move towards a CFA. Top Indian School = IIM (ABCLIK), FMS, XLRI, SP Jain, MDI, IMT, Bajaj, NMIMS.

You seem clear in wanting to build a career so recommend the former option above.

I don't agree with the blanket statement that a CFA is of little value without an MBA. A CFA is a slightly narrower finance qualification (focused on investment / money management = the buy side of finance); taken by people while on a job (whether or not they have an MBA), while an MBA is a qualification which most people take 1-2 years out of the job market to attend a program full-time.
766
Thanks baccardisprite.
I have admits confirmed for 1 year Florida MBA and 1 year Hec Montreal.
Based on my profile and objectives what do you think is the right choice?

Profile:
---------
Age:34
Exp: 10.5 yrs, IT/consulting, managerial Experience: 3-4 yrs
Manage Offshore development center, 20-25 resources, 5.5 yrs in US experience, exp in working with 19 nationalities. managing projects of 1-4MUSD, leading workshops, JAD sessions etc.
GMAT: 680
TOEFL:105
Undergrad: CS Eng M.G University, India 72.84%
Post graduate Diploma: CDAC 73%
PMI Certified PMP

Objective:
----------
Obtain Senior management position driving customer relations and business in IT/Consulting or IT Product firms. Location Preference: 1. US 2. Canada
clarification Florida MBA -- 1 year full time UFL Hough MBA


Once you've applied and received admits (congratulations by the way), it's less about your profile, but a lot more about what you seek after.

I don't know much about either school - though up front,

HEC Montreal is probably more well known in Canada than UFL MBA in the US! --> Score 1 to HEC Montreal.

Which market is more friendly to foreign graduates? What does your research and (hopefully) your contact with Alumni actually tell you about the job market for the positions you seek? Getting an H1-B in the US may be a lottery, whereas getting a work-permit in Canada through the Canadian Master's Graduate Programs may be less of a challenge.
The Canadian work permit allows you to at least search for a job without the specter of visa expiry or the requirement for employer sponsorship? --> Score 1 to HEC Montreal

The Florida MBA is with a University that has a well known school of Engineering, so Alumni access to Technology recruiters may be wider than that offered by HEC Montreal (?). --> Score 1 to Florida MBA

Settlement possibilities in the market you seek employment? H-1B to Green Card is likely a greater challenge than working in Canada to settlement in Canada (?) --> Score 1 to HEC Montreal

HEC Montreal is in Quebec, so the immediate job market in the Montreal area might require that you learn French. In you don't have the time during the MBA or after to learn French --> Score 1 to Florida MBA

As you see, either school carries its risks & opportunities. You cannot nake the risk go away, it's all about how much you want to expose yourself (& your family?) to those risks, and more importantly what you bring to the table in order to pull through those risk & opportunity areas (your skills, achievements and experience making up 75% and your MBA education making up the 25%).

Instead of my telling you more, do take a piece of paper and write the pros & cons of going to either of the above programs - keeping in mind the wider objective, your career. The school that wins is probably the one you want to attend. At your age 30+, with a family in tow (?), loans on your head and other personal circumstances, you probably want to go with your head rather than your heart.

Hope this helps you make an informed and risk aware decision.
All the best
Baccardisprite
767
Hi Baccardi, I have been going through your post since some time and find it very informative.

Below are my details, would appreciate if you could advise me

Age:31
Exp: 9.5 yrs in IT (1.6 years in UK and 3 months in Netherlands, Rest in India, Managerial Experience: Around 2-3 yrs)
Domain : BFSI
B Tech (Electronics) : 72%
12th : 64%
10th : 70%
GMAT : Planning to write in June-2011

I am looking for MBA and post MBA my objective it to get into IT Consulting role in BFSI domian. I read through details of PGPX courses from IIMs, what I find is these courses are intended to accelerate the career path of experienced managers, which is not something I am looking for, since I my goal is to get into IT consulting. Could you please advise, how the PGPX program can help me, or if it is not the right course for me, could you please suggest what would be the right course/college for me, I am open to India or Abroad, preferably for 1 yr courses. I am still doing my research on European Colleges, but the job market does not seem to be very good since recession. Thanks in Advance.


Going by your profile and what you seek - career acceleration seems to be what you're looking for. Most of the people in the IIM PGPX Programs are people with profiles similar to yours. Based on what I've seen in the PGPX programs, they seem to offer 2 things:

*commercial / business focused education to technically / functionally sound professionals with 7+ years experience in any field (though each PGPX class seems to have a profusion of those in the IT field, this will change as classes grow more diverse in the years to come).

*A cost-effective yet professionally sound pathway for experienced people to access a career in India or (where possible) abroad.

Programs abroad similar in class to the IIM PGPX are:
*IMD's 1 year MBA
*Sloan Masters M.Sc in London Business School
*Sloan Masters in MIT's Sloan School of Management
*INSEAD's 1 year MBA
*Queen's School of Business, Canada
*Ivey School of Business, Canada
*Cambridge / Oxford MBAs, UK

These are the world's best-known 1 year management programs where (barring Queens & Ivey), you would find prospective classmates with experience profiles similar to yours.

The EU job market is certainly not as buoyant as it was 3-5 years ago, but if you have the skills applicable / transferable & valuable to potential employers, and convince them that you're a worthy hire, they will go to every length possible to employ you. You've got have your career goals pretty clear though, be prepared to network furiously, and train yourself for a comprehensive job-search off-campus as you would for companies coming on-campus. I say off-campus because you're too old to get into a management rotational program that a lot of companies come to campus for. So you would need to (off or on-campus) target real jobs requiring skilled people who will contribute from Days 1/2.

You'll need a top school for this for 2 reasons: (1) a strong, widely spread alumni network in the field you want to access (IT / Technology / Operations Consulting), with which you can network and (2) a strong career services team that will have the street-credibility to attract alumni + corporates to present / recruit on campus and train you well enough to put your best foot forward off-campus. Over 50% of the so-called dream jobs that MBAs find (outside of consulting, banking & rotational programs) are through off-campus job-searches.

Hope that helps you with your thought process.
All the best
Baccardisprite
768

Hi Baccardisprite/strongbow
I have got an admit to SP jain Dubai/Singapore(IT specialization) for the April batch but i`m planning to defer it. That gives me about 6-7 months from now and i was thinking of working on some topics/courses which can give me an edge during as well as post MBA. I wanted some guidance on topics related to project mgmt(IT specific). What kind of courses/topics/self study would help me in gaining knowledge in this field. I do understand this is an open ended question but i would appreciate if you guys can give some tips on the same. Can i look to take up PMP certification? AFAIK it needs managerial exp.

My profile:
4 years with Infosys as a Sr. S/w engineer (Domain-Insurance)
1 year with Thomson Reuters-(current) as a Sw Engineer working on their online product Westlaw. Domain is mainly US Legal but no domain knowledge is required for the work that i`m currently doing.

i`m mainly looking for a Pre-sales or a BA role post MBA(India/Singapore). Some info on the Singapore IT market and what do the recruiters look for in Singapore will also do grt help. 😃

769
Hi Baccardisprite/strongbow
I have got an admit to SP jain Dubai/Singapore(IT specialization) for the April batch but i`m planning to defer it. That gives me about 6-7 months from now and i was thinking of working on some topics/courses which can give me an edge during as well as post MBA. I wanted some guidance on topics related to project mgmt(IT specific). What kind of courses/topics/self study would help me in gaining knowledge in this field. I do understand this is an open ended question but i would appreciate if you guys can give some tips on the same. Can i look to take up PMP certification? AFAIK it needs managerial exp.

My profile:
4 years with Infosys as a Sr. S/w engineer (Domain-Insurance)
1 year with Thomson Reuters-(current) as a Sw Engineer working on their online product Westlaw. Domain is mainly US Legal but no domain knowledge is required for the work that i`m currently doing.

i`m mainly looking for a Pre-sales or a BA role post MBA(India/Singapore). Some info on the Singapore IT market and what do the recruiters look for in Singapore will also do grt help. :)

Hi,
Regarding Project management, there are 2 certifications which are well regarded.
1. PMP (more recognised in US and India)
2. PRINCE2 (more recognised in UK and Australia)
PMP does require some managerial experience, I dont think PRINCE2 does, just check out the relevant website (Google should do it)
The main difference between these 2 certifications is that PRINCE2 assumes a controlled environment while PMP doesnt.
PMI (PMP's governing body) also offer a lightweight certification called CAPM which can be used for those who dont have significant managerial experience that PMP needs so you may want to check that out as well.
Also when you go for these certifications you need to bear in mind the requirements for maintaining these certifications. Not many people think this through.
Regarding job market in Singapore I dont have a clear idea myself but if you need some specific info PM me and I will try to get it for you.
770

Hi,

I am currently working in a product company specialising in the ERP domain. I have around 3 years of experience in the IT industry.

I would like to gain an understanding of the managerial side of systems, landscapes and how IT as a tool can help companies achieve their goals. I have a 650 in GMAT. What courses and colleges should I look forward to?

I am also not averse to a higher degree that enlightens me with the know how of the other facets of an organisation, barring the financial side of things. Basically I am looking forward to a higher degree that helps me understand the higher level picture of an organisation. I know I have used a cliche. :)

Can you guide me please?

Regards,
badpoem.

771
Hi Baccardisprite/strongbow
I have got an admit to SP jain Dubai/Singapore(IT specialization) for the April batch but i`m planning to defer it. That gives me about 6-7 months from now and i was thinking of working on some topics/courses which can give me an edge during as well as post MBA. I wanted some guidance on topics related to project mgmt(IT specific). What kind of courses/topics/self study would help me in gaining knowledge in this field. I do understand this is an open ended question but i would appreciate if you guys can give some tips on the same. Can i look to take up PMP certification? AFAIK it needs managerial exp.

My profile:
4 years with Infosys as a Sr. S/w engineer (Domain-Insurance)
1 year with Thomson Reuters-(current) as a Sw Engineer working on their online product Westlaw. Domain is mainly US Legal but no domain knowledge is required for the work that i`m currently doing.

i`m mainly looking for a Pre-sales or a BA role post MBA(India/Singapore). Some info on the Singapore IT market and what do the recruiters look for in Singapore will also do grt help. :)


Not being an IT guy and knowing only the "practical" side of project management (the non-IT, everyday aspect of it) - I am unable to specifically advise you on the PMP. Having done IT for so many years, you might want to expand your reading & preparation into broader skills. Can you look at learning a foreign language? Given your interest to work in Asia, learning at least conversational Chinese / Japanese might put you at a competitive advantage with recruiters? If you're able, you might want to take up a contractual / consulting assignment (3-6 months) with a small / medium / start up technology company where you are exposed to a broader array of functions (marketing, operations, supply chain and IT) in a fast paced decision making environment? You're going to study anyway for 12-18 months... why not use the next 6-7 months to broaden skills? Make yourself more attractive to employers? I know very little if at all about the PMP, but if you're looking for a pre-sales or Business Analysis role post your education - where the role is about consultative client interaction....is the PMP the right qualification for it?Anyway - best of luckBaccardisprite
772
badpoem Says
Hi, I am currently working in a product company specialising in the ERP domain. I have around 3 years of experience in the IT industry. I would like to gain an understanding of the managerial side of systems, landscapes and how IT as a tool can help companies achieve their goals. I have a 650 in GMAT. What courses and colleges should I look forward to?I am also not averse to a higher degree that enlightens me with the know how of the other facets of an organisation, barring the financial side of things. Basically I am looking forward to a higher degree that helps me understand the higher level picture of an organisation. I know I have used a cliche.
Eloquent way to describe getting into consulting / product management / strategy business analysis roles in the IT / Tech management field :-). Recommend you try improving your GMAT to 700+, work for another year or 2, and apply for an MBA in a US Top 20-25 b-school tied to a university also housing a strong school of engineering. All the bestBaccardisprite
773
Once you've applied and received admits (congratulations by the way), it's less about your profile, but a lot more about what you seek after.
.....

Hope this helps you make an informed and risk aware decision.
All the best
Baccardisprite

Thanks Baccardisprite. I just wanted to see your point of view in addition to whatever I can come up with. Thanks
774
baccardisprite Says
Not being an IT guy and knowing only the "practical" side of project management (the non-IT, everyday aspect of it) - I am unable to specifically advise you on the PMP. Having done IT for so many years, you might want to expand your reading & preparation into broader skills. Can you look at learning a foreign language? Given your interest to work in Asia, learning at least conversational Chinese / Japanese might put you at a competitive advantage with recruiters? If you're able, you might want to take up a contractual / consulting assignment (3-6 months) with a small / medium / start up technology company where you are exposed to a broader array of functions (marketing, operations, supply chain and IT) in a fast paced decision making environment? You're going to study anyway for 12-18 months... why not use the next 6-7 months to broaden skills? Make yourself more attractive to employers? I know very little if at all about the PMP, but if you're looking for a pre-sales or Business Analysis role post your education - where the role is about consultative client interaction....is the PMP the right qualification for it?Anyway - best of luckBaccardisprite

Thanks Baccardisprite and wish you a very happy birthday :), I did think about learning a foreign language, since my focus is Asia i guess Chinese or Japanese would be the right choice. Can u/folks out here tell me which one of these would be the right choice. The location in focus is SE Asia, mainly Singapore. IMO Chinese seems to be a better fit but folks who already have exp in these locations would be able to give me a better perspective on this!!
775

Some days back, I bumped into this thread.
I couldn't help noticing the vast amount of experience baccardisprite has considering the posts he has made.

@Others: Today is baccardisprite's birthday. Lets wish him a very happy birthday and a great year ahead.

Thanks baccardisprite for the personal guidance you are providing. 😁