International educational options beyond the MBA

MBA
1342
@Sri2015

Never heard of University of Sasketschwan... Ok, I've heard of the state in Canada, but the University itself isn't well known. You might get a role in Geo-tech/environmental engg or project engg roles in an Oil & GAs / Energy / Industrial capital intensive company. But these roles normally go to guys with several years experience in conventional operational roles.

Think carefully. Is there anyway you can get into an ET/MT role in a major / capital intensive corporate in India, gain a few years of hard core operational experience, then go for further specialist education? And why Sasketch... why not a more famous Engg school like MIT, Stanford, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Urbana, Cornell, Delft (Holland), Swiss Federal?

All the best
Baccardisprite
1343
hi baccardi sprite .

A big thanks for guiding confused guys like us.Pl guide me too.

Here is my profile.

Age 25
Sector:IT delivery- TCS
Domain - Telecom(PBX-R&D;)

X - 92
XII - 95
BE Electrical - 76%

Work Exp-4 yrs.(purely technical)-Quality assurance-
-No International Exp

Extra curriculars-Decent-Public speaking+Bitmap painting
leadership roles-School Pupil Leader+Organiser of a Business Quiz - intercollegiate level+Project co-ordinator for final year projects+Lead a team of 18 people to successfully achieve team objectives.---the usual stuff.Nothing extra-ordinary

I am writing my GMAT on december 18.

1)Dreams Vs Reality

Plan A: My passion-An almost unrealistic dream:

I have a passion towards sales/marketing and desire to end up in Business development role. However since I do not have a work ex in marketing I don €™t think I can easily land a job post MBA. job rotations inside TCS are a bit difficult. Also I don €™t want to risk myself to joining startups at this stage of my career lest they shut shop all of a sudden.By the way at 25 I think i am old for the cat based programs.Is there any other way I can do an MBA or masters in marketing and land a job after it?

Plan B: The educational choice driven by my career thus far-A Hopefully realistic dream:

As a long term goal I'd want to be in a executive position with a software tech company. Looking into the near future(assuming Plan A is unrealistic), I'd like to make progression from tech side of things into perhaps, product management/strategy/marketing & sales for Tech companies.I have learnt from previous posts that MBA with electives in operations/strategy helps in achieving my goal.Is my profile suitable for the course or is it also another dream like the marketing one?


2)Can you name some good courses in Masters in SCM in Australia-Asia.

The Georgia tech-NUS Double Master Program in Logistics & Supply Chain Management demands a GRE.I am in no mood to write a GRE since i am almost through with my GMAT.

What are your thoughts on NUS Master of science in SCM-started in year 2011
(not the Double Master Program in Logistics & Supply Chain Management) .

I came across this : MIT-Malaysia Institute for Supply chain Innovation
http://www.misi.edu.my/Its a new program but has The MIT brand name written over it,
Visiting faculty members from MIT and MIT course ware+exchange trip to MIT.your thoughts on this will be helpful.
Since i would prefer working in Asia after my MS/MBA I thought this program might be useful


The UK picture is quite scary that is why i have not yet considered Cranfield's M.Sc in Logistics and SCM.I also have MIT SCM in my radar.

3)In the long run will there be any difference because of the difference in degrees - MAsters in management in *** and MBA in ***.

4)from previous posts I come to know that good strategy/operations courses are there in the US alongside good engineering schools.So I think studying spanish will be worthwhile.Am I right?

5)Right now I have completed 4 yrs in the same project-PBX R&D.Do; you suggest me to move out of this project and move into the retail space as it will help in building knowledge base on Operations/SCM??

I ask this because I dont give myself a realistic chance of starting MBA in 2013 since I take the GMAT pretty late than most people.Also I am bored with the current project.I am finding out ways to keep myself engaged in the one yr leading upto 2014 when I plan on starting my MBA.

Thanks.
Hitman25
1344

Hi

I am from IIm calcutta

have received a dual degree ofer from escp, paris. i wanted to know how advantageous would it be to be at escp for 1 year when a student of iim c.

Also, is there anyone who has been shortlisted for the same course??

thanks

1345
hitman25

You're quite right in that a direct shift into marketing is near-impossible. In the longer term though, it's not completely impossible, and I know of many who have transferred from technical to commercial roles. You need a combination of skills you can build over the next 2-3 years, then a focused masters education with electives in Strategy & Marketing. The intent should be around convincing a future employer (through experience, skills and education) that you can credibly deliver in a marketing role.

Secondly - marketing in what industry or type of company? moving to FMCG may be more difficult than doing a marketing / business development role in a tech product / software company. So you need to keep those aspects of your goal realistic.

So how can you make a transition in the short term:

1) Within TCS - you mention "difficult", but is it impossible? Do you have senior people in marketing to whom you can talk and seek mentorship / guidance from? Are there any projects or networking opportunities with colleagues and executives working in TCS' marketing or business development functions?

2) Outside TCS - try joining a smaller company where your role may be much wider than just the quality and R&D; space you work in. Even if NOT marketing, understand if it has client or external party interactions. A start-up or mid-size company would be just perfect. Don't hesitate to use your network of family, friends and relatives to seek such a role. Worry less about the money and focus on learning?

3) Can you do other things to improve your profile? Learn a language?

You're still young, and can change your course - however it's never a snap, and it's NEVER based solely on education. You could do a CAT, and get into a good Indian b-school (may people >25 now), but and could get a marketing role, but you'll get shown up very quickly.

I like your option 5! Go for it.

Education is not the sole solution to career challenges. It certainly complements other solutions, but is never the sole one.

All the best

Baccardisprite

1346
starlet11
..
Can you tell us a little more about yourself and your career objectives? Your question needs to be viewed in context as well! So think and post again.
..
All the best
Baccardisprite
1347

Dear baccardisprite,

Thanks for responding to my queries.

I have spoken to my HR regarding a change of role from quality assurance engineer to Business Analyst (since its a natural career progression than from a QA engineer than becoming a business development executive).I have also attended a mentoring session with a Business analyst and have understood the role and the required certifications to become a business analyst.I will be working on those certifications after my GMAT.Waiting to talk to my manager after my GMAT is over.

If I am lucky I might end up with the role with the same PBX project else I will have to switch to retail projects within TCS and continue searching for Business development roles.Hope my career plan makes sense.Also I plan to learn spanish within the next one year(or should I learn french considering the fact that my PBX client is a french company).

I do not plan to do a CAT MBA since I do not want to do an education just to get the foot in the door.Just as you pointed out Education is not the sole solution to career challenges.I believe that over time i can move into a client facing role if i am persistent with my request to the management.I am a hardworker and am in the good books of the management.

If you feel something apart from the above needs to be done please suggest them.I will keep you posted on my progress.

Thanks.
Hitman25

1348

@hitman25

Good Start, and a proactive approach! Stay patient, persistent, diligent & focused. It will happen.

All the best

Baccardisprite

1349
@baccardisprite .. i guess u missed post .. could you please reply :D
1350

Reading through this thread over the last 4 hours has been more informative than most of the online research I did over the last week. Thanks to @baccardisprite and all others who have contributed.

I am a software engineer looking to study abroad (aiming Fall 2013). The main motivations to study abroad:
* To get a job abroad (I want to experience professional life outside India); working with a good software product company in India usually requires ~4 years before you can land a job abroad without international education.

* I am an engineer at the moment, coding for a living. Although I really enjoy it and am really good at it, I don't think that is where my best abilities are. The best of me will likely be tapped in a more project/product management post that involves strategic thinking and people skills.

* My previous education experience in India, in all honesty, was quite pathetic. I want to experience learning from professors who are thought leaders in their fields. I want the next education experience to be as good as it can get in terms of learning.

Concise background (I will PM you my LinkedIn profile):

ICSE: 92%
ISC: 90%
Integrated MS in Software Engineering from VIT University: 9.14 / 10.0 GPA
Work exp:
14 months of internships, including 6 months with Microsoft
Full-time work since June 2011, last 1 year with a reputable software product company.
Although I don't have any awards to show for it, my industry experience is quite good due to broad exposure, good skill-set, high responsibility and good network.

I am preparing for GRE and unless something goes wrong, I should meet my target of 95 percentile in Verbal and 97 percentile in quant.

Career aspirations: I want to work in the IT industry definitely, but not as an engineer. Ideal post would be product manager. I would love to get into a rotational program with an IT major after graduation. Consulting sounds really interesting to me, so keeping that option open would be good. I am an idea person, constantly coming up with new systems, education that would help with entrepreneurial activities in the future is preferred.

For all these reasons, I want to do a PG degree that involves technical (computer science) as well as management studies. So far I have identified two programs of definite interest:

MISM at Carnegie Mellon with focus on Business Intelligence/ Data Analysis (

).
MS in Management Science and Engineering at Stanford.

1. Could you please help me evaluate how likely I am to get an admit from the programs mentioned above?

2. Besides these, I want to apply to 3 other programs. Can you please suggest any? I prefer US over others due to likelihood of jobs and because Silicon Valley is the best place to be for software professionals. Only good source of good info on other top programs is from US News and Rankings for Management Information Systems. How reliable are these rankings? The management engineering programs besides Stanford's dont seem to meet all my requirements and aren't at the same level.

3. Do you think my choice or courses (or my decision to go study abroad), fit my career aspirations?

I have started exploring this site for more info, but links to discussions on how best to apply to these programs would be really helpful.

Thank you so much for making time to help you aspirants.

1351
heirapparent,
Sorry I missed your post earlier. Your plan A isn't unachievable, but you'll need to do a few things in advance and not deadline the timings of your life to when you need to do an MBA or Masters education.
Plan A: I would look outside your current company and see if there are opportunities with any smaller company (even at a slightly lower salary) where you can spread your experience beyond IT into operations, customer development, sourcing, distribution and other non-manufacturing areas of the supply chain. To be a Manufacturing consultant, you will need to spend 7-10 on the shop floor, in core & supervisory roles. Almost impossible now, since you didn't start your career on the shop floor.
Plan B: is straightforward and you should be able to achieve it (don't get complacent though). IF you're going back to school with the thought of returning to the IT industry, acquire some skills / competence in IT (technology, project management etc..) that employers will value alongside the commercial / client interactive skills you would use as an IT consultant.
Plan education carefully. Try and score 720+ in GMAT, and invest some extra cash in appearing for the GRE as well. Then try for programs that will combine the technical and managerial; from a top school. In the US - choose a University with a strong school of Engineering (top 20) + a strong business school (Top 20-30); and go for a degree in Industrial Engg / Management Science / Decision Sciences; if possible, combine it with an MBA. This will potentially make you eligible for a 2+ year OPT in the US, where you can find a job, learn some skills and then be globally mobile. Check the US News & World Report (latest edition available in any landmark book-store in India; or on-line) - check the top 20 Engg schools, and top 30 business schools. Those belonging to the same university would be your targets - MIT, Stanford, UC Berkeley, Cornell, Michigan, NorthWestern (Kellogg /McCormack), Duke, U Texas Austin etc....
If a Canadian school, choose a Top 5 Canadian University and you will gain the automatic right to work for 2 years after you graduate. But to have credibility in the market, you'll need to go to a top school.
All the best
Baccardisprite
1352
stainwal,
All good reasons to seek a foreign education, but what professional skills do you have that will interest a potential employer of Product Management Professionals? What do you think a Product Management role in a good IT / Technology / Software Product company really is?
Carefully note the questions - I'm talking professional skills, jobs and careers, not whatever you think a Masters education (at this early stage of your career) will bring you.
Take a few days, think and post again.
All the best
Baccardisprite
1353

Hi baccardisprite,

Over the last year or so, I have been exposed to product management a lot. I've worked very closely with PMs and gotten to understand what they do. I think I possess a general aptitude for that sort of work - ability to create a roadmap for a product and see it through its execution, leveraging various teams in the organization.
More importantly, I cite Product Management as an example of an engineering related job I may want to end up in. Few others that I have heard of and am interested in - technical sales and technical consultant (for new technology endeavors). The main emphasis here is to use a combination of engineering knowledge with management aptitude to do well in my job. Among other things, I hope that master's in US will expose me to more career alternatives (another reason for my inclination towards an inter-disciplinary program).

In the long term, I see myself as an executive at a large software MNC, handling new initiatives. Entrepreneurship is always on the table, IF I develop a vision of a product/service that I am absolutely committed to.

Hope this gives you a good idea of where I am coming from. Answering you has made me question my own assumptions, thanks for that.

1354

Puys,


can anyone eveluate my profile for MSc(FIn & Econ) from LSE. Pls let me knw ur opinions..
Btech (industrial engg)
GRE 1360
Work: 3 years, No 2 IT company in the world
2 years in a startup
currently with RBI (central bank)

1355
Puys,
can anyone eveluate my profile for MSc(FIn & Econ) from LSE. Pls let me knw ur opinions..
Btech (industrial engg)
GRE 1360
Work: 3 years, No 2 IT company in the world
2 years in a startup
currently with RBI (central bank)

1356
Puys,
can anyone eveluate my profile for MSc(FIn & Econ) from LSE. Pls let me knw ur opinions..
Btech (industrial engg)
GRE 1360,toefl 110
Work: 3 years, No 2 IT company in the world
2 years in a startup
currently with RBI (central bank)

1357
Puys,
can anyone eveluate my profile for MSc(FIn & Econ) from LSE. Pls let me knw ur opinions..
Btech (industrial engg)
GRE 1360 toefl 110
Work: 3 years, No 2 IT company in the world
2 years in a startup
currently with RBI (central bank)

1358
@anjana960 said:
Puys,can anyone eveluate my profile for MSc(FIn & Econ) from LSE. Pls let me knw ur opinions.. Btech (industrial engg)GRE 1360 toefl 110Work: 3 years, No 2 IT company in the world 2 years in a startup currently with RBI (central bank)



Hi anjana960,

It's impossible to assess a profile for a particular college since the college might have completely different set of internal criteria and a lot depends on the pool of applicants.

Just few points from my side...

Your undergrad specialization (Industrial engg) is well suited for the course and will give you an advantage. Usually the course demands high level of mathematical and analytic proficiency and most of the class comprise of economics/maths/stats grads.

You have a decent GRE (Quant score will matter specifically)

Added work exp will give you an advantage as long as it is aligned with your Undergrad studies.

With this profile, you have all the reasons to apply for the course. At the same time you can look into some of the other MMS/Msc courses in Finance and with 5 years of WE an MBA is within scope as well (though depends on your future career expectations)

Cheers,

Leo30..!!



1359

THANKS LEO. but my current work(in rbi, central bank) has to do with finance and econ. also am luking for a role in world bank, ADB etc. with this masters prog from LSE.

Please provide ur valuabl feedbac for the same.

1360
@anjana960 said:
THANKS LEO. but my current work(in rbi, central bank) has to do with finance and econ. also am luking for a role in world bank, ADB etc. with this masters prog from LSE.Please provide ur valuabl feedbac for the same.
Hi anjana

To be fair and honest with you, this Master program may not directly fetch you a job in ADB or world bank but certainly can be a perfect base for the same.

These courses are usually research oriented and will require you to spend few more years in the research post completion. Now, world bank and similar organisations never go to a college for recruitment, the openings are often through their websites, referrals, fellowship programs.

Now, to the point:

1) If you are aiming to go for research after completing your Msc, this is a perfect course. You will need patience and honest interest for the subject. In long term you can land to a job in corporate/government/research institutes etc. (Including World bank/ADB etc)

2) If you don't aspire for research, rather want a job right after your masters, probably MBA will be a better idea or any other Masters in Management course that are designed more for the corporate (ESCP, LBS, IE etc). You can always give a try for opportunities with World Bank/ADB as you progress in your career.

I am not sure if this answers your queries, hope it helps.

Cheers,

Leo30..!!


1361
@baccardisprite

I am a Final year Engineering student from the University of Mumbai

Here's my profile

10th SSC - 81%
12th HSC - 77%

However, I entered a not-so-good Engineering college and got complacent and messed up my grad acads, lost interest in Engineering

on the positive side, I have a good extra-curricular profile .. and have developed an interest in Management, with an inclination towards Marketing.

I dont think I would get placed or like to get placed in an Engineering firm .. Ultimately, after a few years, I have to join my Dad's business

So, my plan is to work in the marketing sector and learn European languages after my graduation ..


So would you recommend me a Masters in Management program from some top b-school in Europe?

And what are the other benefits of MiM in Europe program apart from the international exposure and contacts?

thank you!