1. How is it different from doing social work at Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS) and running a commercial organization?

I gradually moved from TISS to running a profit-making organization. I started off with working in the social work sector for a while after which I didn’t do anything much for a couple of years. Then when my husband got a massive heart attack I joined the Human Resource department at Thermax and worked under the HR head at that time for a period of five years. I learnt a lot under his guidance. However after a while he decided to be a consultant and left us. At that point it was decided that I would head the HR department. I managed the HR division for approximately five years after which the board decided that I should be the Executive Chairperson when my husband passed away.

In my opinion handling a commercial organization and doing social work is fairly different. The fundamental management principles and business insight is the same but the arena one is dealing in is entirely different. For instance the financial implications in a business are mind baffling. Especially for someone who has not handled crores of rupees to take decisions relating to financial aspects or making decisions involving a large number of people in an organization is very tricky and far-fetched. In social work it is usually a one on one decision so the impact is very different. The two sectors are similar in ways that one needs to be calm, composed and should respond to each situation with equanimity.

2. After the two major setbacks in your life, how did you cope with the trauma and go on? What qualities you think helped you regain your belief and strength in yourself?

Initially I was extremely uncomfortable in the new setup. As a matter of fact I kept focusing on my inadequacies and comparing myself to my husband, who was a leader par excellence. I constantly felt inferior since I gave more significance to my limitations instead of looking at the strong points I brought to the organization. Fortunately I went for the Vipassana meditation program, which helped me terrifically to come to terms with death and realize that each one of us have certain competencies and confines. It made me realize that I had to put in my best, however knowing that not necessarily it would be equal to my husband’s best. But I had to get over the fact that I cannot survive by forever being in the comparative state of mind. I had to do my best although two things made it worse for me. Firstly there was a downturn in the economy because of which our performance started deteriorating dramatically. So as the head of organization my responsibility was immense towards our shareholders. Also one year before my husband’s death we went public and as a family we felt responsible and could not let our shareholders down. This was something that was bothering me a lot.

Another blow to me was the sudden loss of my son a year later and as a mother coming to terms with that was very difficult for me. According to me being in touch with reality and seeing things, as they are is an imperative leadership quality. Many of my senior executives kept saying that this was a temporary phase after which we all would bounce back. They wanted to wait for the economy to turn around whereas in my opinion this was an ostrich-like attitude. The senior executives did not want to get consultants in to the company, as their egos did not allow them to accept any external help. But I firmly believed that we required an outsider’s view and therefore we brought in a consultancy firm. With hiring a consultant there were certain drastic changes made in the company structure and culture. These changes brought in growth and development at Thermax.

Over the years you have introduced several new HR policies and guidelines, for example maintaining total transparency and openness within Thermax. Could you explain how did you follow this model? Besides this, what other changes did you implement within the organization?

As far as I’m concerned this is not something, which I brought into the company. These things have been implemented and made use of from the time when my husband was around or even before, during my father’s period. Some of the principles included discontinuing the hierarchal system, not being bothered by minuscule things like size of ones room, also one is not necessarily right because he holds a senior post in the firm. We at Thermax believe in giving a good earshot to everyone, giving less importance to the person saying it but instead to what is being said. All these clichés we have had in management, we have genuinely tried to get away with them. I wouldn’t say that we have got 100 per cent success with it but we definitely believe in them. Personally any work one does is a part of ones total being and it is much larger than anything else.

If one let’s his or her power go to their head and starts thinking that they are the greatest it is the end of ones existence. If you ask me this attitude is not going to help anyone. Therefore the struggle within myself is also with my being not only with my role as an executive, the larger context is vital for me. I think my husband also believed it is essential that we respect people and their individuality. We shouldn’t assume simply because we have authority, money and position that we are in anyway better than others. I feel such phases are momentary, they come and go away.

Did you face any problems initially being a woman and handling a huge empire with several men reporting to you? Were your male employees comfortable with the idea?

When I was in the HR department, the administration division came under my vigilance, and the head of department who was an army colonel found it extremely difficult to have a female chief. He had never dealt with women prior to this and being in the administration department there were many women under him as well. In the bargain he was sandwiched between women and he could not tolerate the whole idea. This was one rare case but by and large not only being dynamic within the organization. I was very active at CII (Confederation of Indian Industries) too, which is predominately a male dominated affair. At several occasions I would be the only woman. For myself it is a non-issue as one is sure of themselves they would never find any problem dealing in business solely because of being a woman. In fact people are keener to help you learn and grow. But provided women are not arrogant and pretend to know everything. One should be confident enough to accept his or her vulnerabilities and truthfully declare when they do not know something. This attitude helps in the longer run rather than putting on an act of smartness.

At the time you joined Thermax were there other women in leadership positions? Has the scenario changed since then in anyway? Do women have to work a lot harder than their male counterparts to achieve leadership positions?

Now my daughter has taken over as the Chairperson so once again a woman occupies the top position at Thermax. We are aware that there are only six per cent women in our organization and we are trying very hard to make sure that such biases within us are removed.

We at Thermax require individuals having expertise in the field of mechanical and chemical engineering. These areas are not very popular among females and so not many women join us. We have been discussing these issues with the HR department. Also we have created a committee to review the number of woman employed among the new recruitments in the organization. Merit being the most important I will not compromise on merit while hiring any individual. I honestly believe it is not easy to recruit women in our hardcore business.

Whereas I think we can definitely have several women employees in departments such as Finance, Human Resources but in other divisions one certainly requires the engineering skill set. In fact not only engineering but also specific knowledge in accordance with the division. It is a very technical oriented company so even if for example someone has joined us in one of our divisions but does not have knowledge of the specific product it will take him a few years to get used to it. I would say about engineers in our company it is a very technical role and skill set.

Answering your second question I would say I have not experienced it. The primary reason is what I always keep saying that I was made Chairperson by default. But I am definitely active on this issue; I attend numerous workshops at CII etc. I recently attended one such workshop and I got mixed comments form women regarding this subject. A few women have acknowledged that they had to work much harder to prove their competency than their male counterparts. On the other hand some women have refuted it saying they did not have to prove themselves at their work place. They also said they did not expect any special favors just because they are women. Even the ICICI women have declared that they have reached such high positions and maintained it because of their exceptional work.

ICICI also introduced several flexible policies in order to retain good quality women workers. In fact women don’t want special treatment except in case of maternity benefits. The maternity benefits were also confined only to case-by-case basis. There were certain policies made even for men who had family obligations, to retain a good male employee the policy could be altered with it. The crèche system in most companies can also be availed by men, who can get their children and leave them there. Our organization doesn’t have it but it is something we are looking at in terms of long-term benefit for employees. Actually not only Thermax but also a group of companies in Pune together are thinking of starting a crèche, which would be of great relieve to the employees.

Being a woman manager how did you manage and maintain the balance between your professional and personal life?

It was not difficult as my children were grown up and were working by that time. They were quite young but were open and encouraging about the fact of that their mother was working. Therefore it made things relatively simpler for me. Occasionally they found it difficult with me being away but by and large it was a smooth sailing.

Personally and professionally, what has been the most defining moment in your life?

Personally I consider my ability to deal with death and loss of near ones has certainly improved. It has given me a great deal of courage and if I could go through this difficult process I can face any situation now. Personally that has been the most defining followed by undergoing for Vipassana. It involved meditation and reading etc that has played an important part in my life.

Professionally was being asked to be a Chairperson of a company like Thermax, especially at the time when it wasn’t doing well. Among all the difficulties I had to fight all odds, find solutions and turn things around for our benefit. Doing all that and more alone was a great feeling. While making important decisions and getting the company back on track everyone joined hands within the company but there were times when I had to single handedly manage everything. The challenge of heading Thermax and turning things around was the most defining moment of my professional career.

Who has been the major influence in your life? Who is your role model? Among your contemporaries whom do you admire most? And why?

In my younger days my father was the most influential person in my life. Later on my husband also played a significant role in my life. He was an unusual human being. He was the one who constantly encouraged me to work rather than sit at home doing the daily housework. He respected me as a woman and wanted that I did what I desired to do. He was my role model; today my daughter is my model to a large extent. I have learnt so much from my daughter. In fact I’m still learning. Gandhiji too was an outstanding man and a paradigm for me.

When you say contemporaries, Mr Ricardo Semler is someone who I respect a lot. I also admire some characteristics of Mr Narayan Murthy. Amongst the woman managers I respect Ms Naina Lal Kidwai the most. Actually since the past few years I have stopped putting people on a pedestal or making them my role model. Nowadays for me I like certain specific qualities of individuals but I don’t like that person so much that I would wish to emulate them. I have stopped doing it since years.

Do you see a change in leadership and functioning of the organization since your daughter took over as Chairperson? Has the transition been a smooth one for you?

It was a conscious decision to step down as the Chairperson and I have mentioned it several times. The board members decided to have my daughter Meher Pudumjee as the next leader of Thermax. Being my daughter the shift has not been a difficult one as she has imbibed all the family values and traditions, which is very essential. Truly speaking I feel she is better equipped than me as she is a chemical engineer by profession and also has had a stint with Finance before.

Having said that prior to her becoming the Chairperson I realized I had a lot of resentment and irritation towards her. It was coming unconsciously and I was not even aware of it. I had to really reflect and see through to realize my sentiments. But truly I have chosen to step down and I am delighted that she is heading Thermax. The fear and anger towards her was more so because I was a little afraid as to what I would do once I retired. How will I handle myself? So I had to be constantly in touch with that part of me and at the same time have discussions with Meher. The phase was temporary, hence lasted for a very short period of time after which I got over it comfortably.

Personally, you are also an activist for various causes? What drives you to take up these causes?

I am a social worker by profession and therefore when I see such inconsiderate contrasts in the rich and the poor, I feel one must be really insensitive not to be concerned about the underprivileged. As an individual I support this cause deeply and luckily my entire family supports it too. My Board of Directors (BOD) and I have agreed to donate one percent of our Profit after Tax (PAT) for the same purpose. We have created a Foundation where we have defined education as something that we want to take up. We are fortunate that for the first time a municipal school in Pune has been handed over to us. We are going to be running this school from June 2007 onwards.

I am also a very active part of Akanksha, which has been started 17 years ago by Ms Shaheen Mistry in Mumbai. I have supported them in introducing and conducting their activities in Pune.

What is your advice for aspiring women managers when it comes to crossing personal and family barriers? Would you advocate some degree of rebellion as a solution for women from restrictive and conservative backgrounds?

I would on no account advice anyone to rebel or not to rebel. But I would definitely verify that every action has an outcome and be aware of those consequences. In both the cases that is, you fight back or don’t fight back there are going be certain consequences one has to face.

I would suggest women to dare to be the kind of woman they aspire to be, not letting social pressures bog you down and define your presence. I would like people to differentiate themselves and to make their choices intelligently. But at the same time individuals should not be bitter about the consequences, certainly be prepared for the outcome. If you are going to revolt and be sour about the end result then according to me that’s not a good thing. There has to be a harmony around you, one should win over people and not always be defiant. Also take up a few issues where it is required to be rebellious but at the same time learn to resign at times depending on the situation.