Ask Sameer Kamat | Author of 'Beyond The MBA Hype'

MBA
62
jarinwallah Says
I was little worried seeing this. I was preferring a phroen MBA as I thought it would be more relaxed than Indian ones.

Jarinwallah-ji, short response - - - BIG disconnect, buddy.

Less competitive, less credits and all.
The introduction section in the book (which comes before the first chapter) starts off with a spiel on competition and what it means to Indians...and why. With that background, it is not unusual to assume that the world outside India will be a cakewalk.

Those who think that way have a huge shock waiting for them around the corner.

But, looks like I am mistaken here especially about european schools. I am targeting oxford and cambridge this year.
If you are looking for easy MBA programs, I can give you a list. And let me assure you, Oxford and Cambridge will not figure in that list.

In fact, I know guys who completed their MBA from some univs (not the top ones) where they apparently had a blast. And now they are thinking they just blew an opportunity of a lifetime.

any confirmation or clarification on why a european mba end up being more stressful than IT work?
I've never attempted to compare the two, but I guess there's always a first time for everything. So here goes.

- In IT you are incentivised to stick to your area of expertise. In bschool, you are trying to move away from your comfort zone.

- In IT, the employer will arrange for all the admin activities involved in getting you overseas and ensuring you have a cozy lifestyle. During your MBA, you'll have to find a new employer who'll offer you a job and sponsor your work-permit.

- An IT job is relatively straight-forward. Everyone knows their role and there are standard processes to be followed by everyone in the organisation. In the MBA course, you'd be dealing with people from diverse backgrounds who probably have no clue what you did in your pre-MBA role. There will be no formal hierarchies. Connecting with them and convincing them (in group assignments, presentations) will be an everyday challenge, as group dynamics change.

- In an IT role, to a large extent, the schedule is quite predictable. In an MBA, you are trying to get away from pure technical work and the learning curve is going to be steep. Every day will have new learning opportunities. So you'd have to constantly be on your toes.

- It's your money and career at stake, not your IT employer's.

I could go on, but I guess that's a good start.

Ignore the hyperbole in this response (I resorted to it to address the HUGE expectation disconnect), but if there's one piece of advice that you should walk away with, it's this:

Don't target schools that promise you a paid vacation. Aim for those that make life hell for you while you are attending their program, so life after the MBA (with a job, salary and career you love) starts looking like a paid vacation.

- I'm currently on a paid vacation 😃
63

Hello Sameer,
First of all hearty congratulation for the success of your book.You have really figure out a nice topic which was actually required.
Let me brief you about my background.I am an Electronics Engineer from Pune University.Currently have 3+work experience in Supply chain and Retail domain.Have experience of both IT and manufacturing sector.I am planing to do 1 year Post graduate course in Supply Chain and Logistics(after elimination of other course viz marketing). I have decided to pursue the course outside India to have global experience.Finalized couple of college like NUS,NTU (singapore),Warwick,Cranefield(UK).But has inclination for NUS singapore due to its brand,ROI,geographical location and ample oppurntity in SCM.Other college like warwick and cranefield are good but I am little concerned about post course work.Please suggest me.

64
Hey Sameer,

Just wanted to know if a person is in IT how would he differentiate his profile. What exactly extra the IT people do? Requesting you to give some examples.

I am planning to do the following to improve my profile:

1. PMP certification
2. Banking certifications as i work in banking domain
3. Oracle certifications as i work in this technology

I don't see any other way to improve my profile. If you feel something can be done please suggest.

Thanks,
Sandeep

Additional certifications will surely help you, but completing those certifications to help you improve your profile for a B school?? Seems a little off to me.
If you haven't done those certifications until now because they don't add value to you, then I for one feel that it shouldn't be done! but yes, I guess a certificate and the knowledge gained will take you a bit higher w.r.t b school saleability too.

In addition, you could look at adding extra dimensions to your profile. Perhaps discuss with your manager to take up more consulting and/or leadership roles and responsibilities (they'll always love it when their employees ASK for more work, just that it shouldn't become obvious :p), , volunteer for a cause in your corporate CSR, take up some quality/productivity enhancement initiatives that will result in you directly impacting bottomlines...you know, anything that helps you weave a good story come apping season...I know, all this is easier said than done...:) But my best wishes brother...:)
65

Hi Sameer,

This is Bhupender. Initially, I thought of MBA in the final year of my engineering then appeared for couple of exams, didn't made it so dropped the idea for some time and decided to try my hand in corporate...

ever since I have worked in media industry to IT industry...Started off with media industry (IT profile) and then switched to IT industry...I have total 3.5 years of experience in IT operations and strategy as of now and want to do MBA at the stage of my career...

Top most Reason : not to change neither industry nor career but to fast track my career within IT industry..
2. Move to consulting or advisory part of IT.
3. I personally believe my MBA will be more valued and respected if I'll stick to my home (IT industry) instead of being guest @ somewhere.

Programs @ target : Looking for one year program as my priority...I don't want to stay away from work for too long..would like to come back where I would left with two level up as soon as possible.

Now Finally, I seek your take on this...Do I justify my reasons....Will one year program will work for me (Consider almost 4 years of experience in same industry where I would like to work post MBA) ......Post MBA, Hows transition happen from one domain to other within same industry( Operations to consulting or advisory).

Many thanks
Bhupi

66
Thanks Sameer for replying.
:

That wasn't Sameer's response.

Sameer = MartianOnEarth :-)

- Facing an identity crisis?
67

LOL...:)

Heyy!
Let me bask in the glory for some time at least, Martian man!

68
sulzirsha Says
My CAT score will let me knw,whether i'm prepared for the two years studies or not.

The CAT score will let you know what schools you can get into. Whether you are prepared for 2 additional years of hard academic work or not will have to be more of an introspective decision, Sulthana.

Though he is technically sound,didn't know how to deal with his employees and grow the business,which led to a serious prob.
Unfortunately, that's the way most 'new economy' tech business are run. The tech wizkids come up with a fundoo service or product that gets lapped up by the market.

And then the same set of people assume they can manage business aspects of the venture as well, rather than get qualified folks in.

Maybe it's the fear of losing control, maybe it is an over-estimation of their own capabilities, maybe it is ego. Some are successful, but a majority of such high potential ventures hit a roadblock for reasons that have nothing to do with technical skills.

I was just 21 at that time and understood the root cause of the problem,why the company was going to get shut down.It's all bcuz of my manager's Wrong decisions,Bad attitude n communication skills,etc.,.
That's the beauty of business decisions, Sulthana. It is such a subjective topic that every person from his or her perspective is right. I'm sure the manager was as confident as you are about his decisions when he took them.

In hindsight, we can all look back and say 'See? I told you so. You should have listened to me.'

But don't assume, in an MBA program you'll automatically pick up eveything you need to take good decisions. You may learn sophisticated decision analysis frameworks. But judgement will be something that has to come from within.

The book talks about the skills that can be picked up in an MBA program and those that can't. Check out this Rediff article (based on the book), that talks about what they can never teach you in business school.

Money n designation is very much important .Another important thing for me,is the job satisfaction.
Is that the order? If given the option, I'd have re-ordered it slightly. But different folks have different priorities :-)

Thought of getting some suggestions from experts and found the right place n right person.
Aap toh hamein sharminda kar rahi ho. But I hope you are finding the interaction useful.

- Wondering if authors can blush?
69

Hi Sameer,

Interesting thread .

Before I begin let me put across my profile. I scored a 720 in the GMAT which I took recently. I belong to the ubiquitous IT pool and I don't have anything to show for extra-curriculars. Frankly I never bothered, because nothing ever interested me. Only thing I have done is I have read loads of books in my free time .

I have spent close to 6 years now with 2 IT giants. To tell you frankly, I find that the leadership leaves a lot to be desired. I am not talking about bean-counting here but the people management part of it.What I have noticed majorly is the lack of intuition and courage while taking a decision. For example, I have seen top level managers let very excellent people leave the organization because they were either too afraid to set a precedent or unable to let go off the "dear" processes that are put on paper. Whereas, with a little more common sense and positive intent they could have prevented such people from leaving. I don't know where all the good people have gone eventually but what this has done is, it has left behind a huge chunk of bozos in the organization who someday will eventually get promoted further and occupy top positions.

Newspapers will always report the stock values and the mutli billion dollar assets of these giants but they don't talk about the number of clients who have left citing "managerial issues" as a reason. Again this boils down to the same reasons I have cited above.

The kind of managers I have seen in my profession has really put doubts in my mind.

What I want to know is what exactly does an MBA teach you? People are spending lakhs of rupees and then spending half of their life repaying that loan. But if I go for an MBA today, will I come out on the other side a far better person than what I am today? I am not even talking about the money part of it. If an MBA is not going to do anything other than add a few more zeroes to my package, I don't need it. Will an MBA teach me how to take decisions intuitively or will it only teach me how to follow and stick to the processes come what may? What is the value add that comes out of an MBA other than the alumni networking, fat pay package etc?

I read a book once, Managers NOT MBAs by Henry Mintzberg. And I think he hit the nail bang on the head when he said "The MBA trains the wrong people in the wrong ways with the wrong consequences".

Although I have taken the GMAT, I am not able to decide if it is worth the effort and the money to go for an MBA, especially given the kind of "Managers" I have seen in my experience. Just wanted to know your perspective on it.

Cheers..

PS - Have decided to place an order for your book as soon as I finish the current one I am reading .

70

Hi Sameer,

I have read your book, and must commend you for a nice compilation of the ground realities regarding the MBA...setting the right expectations is absolutely vital to avoid future disappointments. Would have liked to have a chapter on "selecting the right b-school", but the probably that is what we have MBA-CB and this thread for..keep the gyan flowing 😃

71
You know I have been thinking of posting my queries here, but Sameer kinda scares me (I have spoken to him before)!

I was wondering if I should mail him separately or use this forum. Man! He is like d big daddy who has an eye on you like! You better do this in time!!! (grr..)

I will be mailing Sameer anyway.

In the interim, for the people on this thread is there anyone who is applying to INSEAD and does not have an international work-ex or an int stint at all? Anyone any thoughts on this? (given that INSEAD doesnt encourage re-applicants, do you think it is worth taking a chance by applying widout int exp.)
72
Thanks for your input, gave me some data to process. Thank you again!
Other schools :-
1.) Tepper
2.) McCombs
3.) Flagler

Good luck with the other schools, buddy. Tell us when you hear back from them.

- SK
73
sood26 Says
I am little wary of feeling into the "start-up" temptation because starting from scratch might be very challenging and I might burn out facing all those challenges than making use of my potential.

Baby steps is the name of the game, Sood paaji. Try something small, figure out where it is going, take corrective actions. And build up the model. Big bang approach usually doesn't work for entrepreneurship, unless you've gone through the process before and are absolutely sure where you are investing your resources.

I think right now my work is going good and I have received some heartening feedback, so I guess I should continue building a good brand for myself at work place and keep an eye out for my ojectives.
Excellent plan, buddy. In parallel, keep yourself plugged into the PG grapevine.

- SK
74

Hello Sir ,
I'm a mechanical engineer & I've just started working (two months work-ex)for a city gas disribution company based in northern India . I'm in the marketing dept & i chose this because I wanted to get into the 'business' aspect of an organisation rather than an engineering job.

I'm currently earning around 45-50k per month.
Also,since its a govt company, work related stress is negligible & I have weekends off ; i'm planning to work somewhere(probably teach) on weekends to earn extra.

Now ,
Most good b-schools students are placed at an average in-hand salary of 65-70k pm.( mere observation , pls correct me if i'm wrong ).
Probably ,only the top 5 b-schools in india offer more.

Would it be viable for me to invest close to 12 lacs( mba fees) to earn an increment of 10-15k per month. ?

The reasons why I wish to do an mba are :
a. Money (Better Pay Package)
b. Learning Potential (Exposure)
c. Future Career Opportunities

These are the options available for me :
1. Slog my ass off this year, crack cat next year & get into an iim (class 2013).

2. If the above doesn't work , stick to this job for 3-4 years , & then opt for an executive mba. Have heard that it yields higher returns than an mba.

3. After 3-4 years : write gmat , if i do get a good score then go for an mba from a good foreign university. But an mba abroad would easily cost me more than 60 lacs & i don't have the reqd resources..Such a huge bank loan would be highly undesirable.

4. After 3-4 years : write Gmat , if i Don't get a good enough score , then work for a couple of more years possibly in the middle east (since they have high natural gas reserves, hence good opportunity ) to get a global work-ex & then get an mba/ or any other certification depending on the circumstances.. I hv read that a global work ex counts a lot for mba interviews into a foreign university.


Please suggest what are the viable future course of actions that i should plan for & do correct me in case my notions differ from the true picture.
Thanx.. 😃

75

Just finished reading your book "Beyond the MBA hype"..it's a very good book and was highly informative specially about the skills that one needs to survive and be successful in the businessworld ,how to make successful career transition even without the coveted MBA degree ,proper introspection as to whether one needs an MBA or not ..all these were really informative ..and the main USP of the book as to what i felt is Appendix D which are a set of questions/doubts that a candidate is likely to encounter in his mind before he embarks on the MBA journey and during the process of his/her MBA.If one successfully gets answer to all the questions in the query list before he/she starts the MBA journey i guess that person is already halfway through to his desired goal whichever it might be.Keep up the goodwork sir...

76
1.sir through your book you gave an idea about the many programmes/certifications that a candidate can opt for to get into his desired profession.but how do thease certifications or programmes help a candidate in terms of flexibility that an MBA degree offers .like there are many who do an mba thinking that he/she will become the ceo of a company one day,and aceo is someone who is responsible for running the company and should have a generalist idea of everything rather than having a specialised idea in a particular field which is the aim of most of the certification programmes.also an with an mba a person can have the flexibility to move from various roles to roles in different orgnzn.like for ex an mba finance can have the option to work for the finance dept of an FMCG cos if he chooses not to work for a financial instin or vice versa with an MBA (marketing)..so is not an MBA deree helpful from that perspective.

2.How rewarding can it be if a person opts for a b-school that is reputed in his fied of interest other than blindly going for any institute of high repute.also whats the difference between a 2 year mba and a 1year mba other than the fact that 2 year mba allows a career switch which is otherwise not possible with 1 year mba.if a person does not want a career switch but a shift in domai then should he opt for 1 year or 2 year mba..and is it beneficial to go for 2 year mba with 5-6 year of w.ex even if there's no inclination towards changing field and would only like to change the domain..or for that purpose is 1 year mba helpful.

3.can every bschool leverage the more or less high w.ex of candidate in their 2 year programme or for that purpose is a 1 year mba helpful...
77
Hey Sameer,
I have heard about MBA crystal ball before,...

Badhai ho Sandeep ji. You are one of the astute ones who know what special names and brands to hunt for. That quality will take you places :-)

Before you start wondering if that was a compliment for you or for MBA Crystal Ball or both, let's back again to your main queries.

One question ...is how I am I better than an average IT guy. I answered the following, but it seemed the they were not satisfied.
CheckEETS has already provided you some perspectives earlier (on the certifications you were planning to do) and you ended up thanking me for his (apt and useful, I must add) contribution. We'll talk about your other points one by one.

1. Good acads . State level rank holder in 10th and 12th in top 100
Usually these are considered irrelevant for MBA admissions. But if you did exceedingly well (like a top rank), it doesn't hurt to mention that.

2. Almost 4 years of team managing experience of 6.5 years work ex and that to a global one where each of my team member is sitting in all different location and experience of managing 2 vendor companies to whom we outsourced the software development
Adcoms get many variations of this scenario. So even if it is actually tough to do what you are doing, after years of being conditioned into hearing it they may tend to downplay it.

3. Fast track promotions in my company.. always got them before time
This would've been a good point. However, frequency of promotions is less impactful than explaining how your roles & responsibilities have changed due to these promotions.

4. 2 Years of work ex in countries like Russia and Czech republic
Again, like in the earlier point, the name of the country is less important than the role you were doing. For example, if you were in Russia doing exactly what you were doing in India, it is not a differentiator.

5. Product implementation work ex.
This would be a good point, if you could contrast how the product implementation work was different from what others do. For folks in the IT industry, it may be relatively obvious, but don't assume that Adcoms would automatically know the difference. Always good to break it down and lay it on the table.

6. Good extra curricular exp
Rather than just listing down the activity, explain why it is important for you, what you've gained from it and (without stretching it too much) how it has influenced you.

Just wanted to know if a person is in IT how would he differentiate his profile. What exactly extra the IT people do? Requesting you to give some examples.
Often perception is based upon how your structure and present your profile. Some guys are pros at it and others go with the assumption that being from an over represented pool is their worst enemy.

Rather than spending time doing to many random things just for the sake of standing out, next time you can work on shaping the perception based on whatever you've already achieved in the last 4 years.

Go ahead and floor them in the next attempt, bro.

- Struggling with self-branding?
78
Hello Sameer,
First of all hearty congratulation for the success of your book.You have really figure out a nice topic which was actually required.

Did you shift your focus from MBA to non-MBA courses after reading the book or before? :-)

I am planing to do 1 year Post graduate course in Supply Chain and Logistics
:
but I am little concerned about post course work.
When it comes to SCM, Cranfield is quite strong. So if you are open to UK options, that would be my top choice.

If the visa situation in the UK scares you, and you have to turn to Singapore, then I'd guess NUS is fine too. But to be honest, I don't know much about their non-MBA courses. So you'll have to do your own research in that area.

Find out how long the course has been in existence. See if you can contact a few current students who'll give you all the latest dope on placements, acads, profs etc.

Have you checked up with the good Indian bschools that offer similar courses?

- SK
79
2. More work.... working more than 12 hrs a day almost everyday...


In India, we project late hours in the office as hard-work and it's seeped into our work culture. Those who follow the herd appear macho and committed. Those who try to achieve a balance between word and life are perceived to be misfits in the corporate world. Ironic!

In western countries it may be perceived as inefficiency, lack of planning and issues with time-management. Probably it's the company management to blame for encouraging such a culture, but fact is they aren't applying to bschools...you are.

So be careful not to send the wrong signals in your apps, bro.

- Wondering how to achieve work-life balance?
80
Bhupisuhag Says
Initially, I thought of MBA in the final year ...didn't made it so dropped the idea...and decided to try my hand in corporate...
Whatever happened 4 years back seems to be working for you now, as you discovered an industry that you like and want to be associated with for in the long run.

Top most Reason : not to change neither industry nor career but to fast track my career within IT industry..
:
Now Finally, I seek your take on this...Do I justify my reasons....
Haanji, sahi jaa rahe ho.

Will one year program will work for me
For many of the European 1-year programs, your experience level will be below the class average. But there are still a few that you can target in Asia and Europe where you'd fit in well.

Post MBA, Hows transition happen from one domain to other within same industry( Operations to consulting or advisory).
Though you are hoping to stick to the IT industry, you are still aiming for a role-change. It won't be as radical as IT-to-Ibanking. But don't underestimate the challenge.

The regular advice that applies to career changers would apply to you too. Think of why anybody would want to get an expensive new guy onboard, when they have tons of talented folks with potential within their company who'd be willing to jump into the new role at a fraction of what you'd demand after getting the spanking new degree on the CV.

Got an answer ready for that?

- SK
81

Since the discussion is on the difference between perception and reality, I am someone who has had my share of disappointments . I slogged 12 years in school and completed 4 years of college hoping that I will make a valuable engineer someday. I work for an IT company now and my work now has nothing to do with what I learnt during 4 years of specialized education(or even the 3 months that the company spent on my training). They could have hired me right out of school(10th standard i mean).

I guess the world is not supposed to make sense anyway. The people who grow our food barely make Rs.20000 a year. I cannot believe someone is willing to pay me 20 times that amount for preparing Excel sheets:shocked:

So here's the question. If I pursue MBA, will i LEARN anything in those 2 years that I could actually put to use after I complete it? Or should I do it because a guy with MBA is paid more to prepare excel sheets than a guy with B.E?

My boss once told me if I stick around long enough in the IT industry i could become a Business Analyst. He also suggested some exam that i could take(I forgot the name).

Suggestions?