Hey TumTum...nice thread, lotsa useful info, although i've not read thru all of it.
I want to know your opinion on this: Will FRM be a good asset for a guy to pursue a career in derivatives or forex trading for a wall street firm? Will it be useful for stepping into the hedge fund field? I guess trading derivatives and forex would involve a lot of risk modelling, so knowledge of risk management will help there. Same goes for hedge fund management, i think. These are my own assumptions...wanna know from you if im correct. Also, for the above three fields (derivatives trading, forex trading, and hedge funds), how useful will the CFA be in comparison to FRM? As in, which of the two qualifications should a guy who wants to pursue one of the above three fields prfer?
Thanks in advance!
hey guys, can u all tell me wats the eligibility for taking FRM
thnks!
Hey TumTum...nice thread, lotsa useful info, although i've not read thru all of it.
I want to know your opinion on this: Will FRM be a good asset for a guy to pursue a career in derivatives or forex trading for a wall street firm? Will it be useful for stepping into the hedge fund field? I guess trading derivatives and forex would involve a lot of risk modelling, so knowledge of risk management will help there. Same goes for hedge fund management, i think. These are my own assumptions...wanna know from you if im correct. Also, for the above three fields (derivatives trading, forex trading, and hedge funds), how useful will the CFA be in comparison to FRM? As in, which of the two qualifications should a guy who wants to pursue one of the above three fields prfer?
Thanks in advance!
CTD. I will answer your questions in the order you put them.
1) Definitely YES. Trading, structuring and risk modeling are the prime applications for what you study in the FRM course. In fact the course has been built upon the premises that it becomes useful for these purposes. That explains why it is more quant than the more accounting stuff oriented CFA.
2) The FRM curriculum is reviewed every year by risk management industry leaders and since the last couple of years, the curriculum committee has been very proactive to begin including specifics of hedge fund risk management in the syllabus in order to keep it up to date. In fact if you look at Section 5 of 2007 Study Guide which I have posted in one of my previous posts, you will see that there is a separate section on Hedge Fund Risk Management. This is because now the hedge funds have begun employing many FRMs.
3) As for FRM vs CFA, well I dont think there should be any comparison because both the courses are markedly different in focus and design. However, for your needs (derivatives trading, forex trading, and hedge funds), the CFA can frankly speaking, be compared to a sword- it is a good weapon to fight with but unfortunately it cant stitch clothes, can it? No! In other words, going through the whole run of clearing 3 levels and waiting 3 years is not really required to get into the kind of roles you want. You can do it with an engineering degree and an FRM frankly. I have along with me, many guys from IITs and other good colleges who have gotten into such roles and are now pursuing FRM or have done a B.E + FRM combo and are at a good pay and package here.
So I definitely put a BUY rating on FRM looking at your needs. If however, you want to be a research analyst then you have no other choice but to go for the CFA.
Hope this helps !
hey guys, can u all tell me wats the eligibility for taking FRM
thnks!
Graduation.
CTD. I will answer your questions in the order you put them.
3) As for FRM vs CFA, well I dont think there should be any comparison because both the courses are markedly different in focus and design. However, for your needs (derivatives trading, forex trading, and hedge funds), the CFA can frankly speaking, be compared to a sword- it is a good weapon to fight with but unfortunately it cant stitch clothes, can it? No! In other words, going through the whole run of clearing 3 levels and waiting 3 years is not really required to get into the kind of roles you want. You can do it with an engineering degree and an FRM frankly. I have along with me, many guys from IITs and other good colleges who have gotten into such roles and are now pursuing FRM or have done a B.E + FRM combo and are at a good pay and package here.
So I definitely put a BUY rating on FRM looking at your needs. If however, you want to be a research analyst then you have no other choice but to go for the CFA.
Hope this helps !
Hey thanks for the excellent post.
So basically, in my case, going for CFA will be an overkill, is it? As in, im trying to do too much, when only a small subset of it is required....actually i shouldnt probably call it a subset coz FRM and CFA content dont necessarily overlap so much, do they? Since you've done FRM, can you temme what percentage of overlap is there, if at all? Are you suggesting that for the profiles i desire, i must drop the idea of CFA and instead choose FRM...im open to both courses, but would prefer to align with a course that is more in line with trading and hedge funds.
Hi everyone,
I intend to take FRM exam this november, but as per FRM requirements, they would not issue the certificate unless I have 2 years of work experience in the relevant area. At present, I have no work ex, so if I take the exam this nov, then what proof will I have that I have cleared this exam until I get the certi after completing 2 years in the relevant area.
Someone pls guide me
thanks!!:neutral:
hey thanks tumtum ! 
:
Hi everyone,
I intend to take FRM exam this november, but as per FRM requirements, they would not issue the certificate unless I have 2 years of work experience in the relevant area. At present, I have no work ex, so if I take the exam this nov, then what proof will I have that I have cleared this exam until I get the certi after completing 2 years in the relevant area.
Someone pls guide me
thanks!!:neutral:
Hello MAH.
This is the very essence of a prefessional degree.
To be awarded one, you will have to satisfy the minimum relevant work-ex criteria. This is because the GARP or CFA Institute wants to build a strong coterie of professionals who possess these degrees and hence you will mostly find people who have relevant work ex opting for these courses.
In some cases though, you may definitely find the inexperienced ones or those haveing different experience pursuing these programs to gain an entry in these fields but then this gives lesser chances of success unless your undergraduate/masters background is very strong (IITs/IIMs/ISB/XLRI etc).
My suggestion, first complete whatever education you are pursuing and try to get a relevant job. If after working in that profile for a year, you still find that you want to pursue FRM as it is relevant to your job profile, then go for it.
Just dont rush into it because all are doing it. Hope you get the message.
Hey thanks for the excellent post.
So basically, in my case, going for CFA will be an overkill, is it? As in, im trying to do too much, when only a small subset of it is required....actually i shouldnt probably call it a subset coz FRM and CFA content dont necessarily overlap so much, do they? Since you've done FRM, can you temme what percentage of overlap is there, if at all? Are you suggesting that for the profiles i desire, i must drop the idea of CFA and instead choose FRM...im open to both courses, but would prefer to align with a course that is more in line with trading and hedge funds.
CTD.
I make an educated guess in saying that CFA will be an overkill for the kind of jobs that you want to get into. However, just think ahead in time. Are these kinds of profiles the ones that you won't mind being into for the rest of your life? If the answer is yes, then you may well go for an FRM as your needs will be sufficiently met.
BUT BUT BUT, if the answer is NO, then I think you must go fo a CFA simply because it is wider in scope (vis-a-vis the FRM) and will only aid you better than an FRM if you want to get into equity research. (No matter what one argues but equity research is one of the key areas in which CFA has a dominant presence like no other designation).
Again, in areas of fund management and market risk/credit risk management, FRM scores equally well and the world's top MFs and Hedge Funds, private equity players increasingly employ FRMs too for such roles.
As far as overlapping of content is concerned, let me be very clear that it is in the areas of derivatives and some part of quantitative methods that you will find FRM and CFA curriculums to intersect, but rest of it is pretty different.
Also, CFA has a heavy basis (throughout the curriculum) in Accounting and FSA which is not the case with FRM. FRM is a bit more quant than CFA but then quants actually get a weightage of only 10% in the total FRM curriculum and hence FRM is a lot of reading with quant techniques interspersed into it.
Frankly speaking, I will not advise you regarding going for FRM or CFA or dropping one for the other. I can only give you a bird's eye view of what lies on store for you if you pursue some option. The decision is yours but yes, an educated guess certainly points out to the fact that CFA for the kind of roles you want AS of NOW, is definitely an overkill and FRM is more relevant.
Hope that helps.
Thanks TUMTUM for the info
however if I tell that I am currently studying at IIMA and doing my interns with one of the IB, then shud I go for it. Basically I believe it would be a gud value addition. I have 3 years of work ex, and 13 months experience as a trader in a stock broking firm. The thing that I am concerned about is the requirement of 2 years of relevant work experience. I have no probs if they hand me the certi after 2 years of relevant work ex, if during the mean time I HAVE THE PROOF THAT I HAVE CLEARED THIS EXAM.
Looking forward to your reply
Thanks!!
Thanks TUMTUM for the info
however if I tell that I am currently studying at IIMA and doing my interns with one of the IB, then shud I go for it. Basically I believe it would be a gud value addition. I have 3 years of work ex, and 13 months experience as a trader in a stock broking firm. The thing that I am concerned about is the requirement of 2 years of relevant work experience. I have no probs if they hand me the certi after 2 years of relevant work ex, if during the mean time I HAVE THE PROOF THAT I HAVE CLEARED THIS EXAM.
Looking forward to your reply
Thanks!!
MAH.
You say that you already have got 3 years work-ex under your belt.
Was it financcial markets related? If yes then you have already met the criteria.
If not, then going by the logic that you were a trader for 13 months, you just have to get another 7 months of work-ex to be eligible. Isn't it?
In that case, your MBA schedule permitting, you should definitely go for it as it may aid you in final placements (if you go for it this year). If you decide to go for it next year, you will already have another 7 months experience by the time you complete the FRM and are awarded the certificate. Got it?
All the best !
dude, you should be an education consultant. If you charged for all this advice, you'd make a killing!!
CTD.
I make an educated guess in saying that CFA will be an overkill for the kind of jobs that you want to get into. However, just think ahead in time. Are these kinds of profiles the ones that you won't mind being into for the rest of your life? If the answer is yes, then you may well go for an FRM as your needs will be sufficiently met.
BUT BUT BUT, if the answer is NO, then I think you must go fo a CFA simply because it is wider in scope (vis-a-vis the FRM) and will only aid you better than an FRM if you want to get into equity research. (No matter what one argues but equity research is one of the key areas in which CFA has a dominant presence like no other designation).
Valid point. I've read a lot about trading and hedge funds as career options and many sources say that it isnt a career option that you can sustain life long...too stressful, too demanding, etc etc. and after a while you just get burned out and wanna settle down for something less painful, like equity analysis or accounting or something (or if you've been reasonably successful at it for 10 years, you wont need to work again at all
). I guess in that scenario, CFA is a good choice coz it opens up plenty of options for you to fall back on. But if thats the case, then i should go in for FRM to satisfy my short term goals and then go for CFA for my long term goals, right? Why do contingency planning 15 years in advance?!
As far as overlapping of content is concerned, let me be very clear that it is in the areas of derivatives and some part of quantitative methods that you will find FRM and CFA curriculums to intersect, but rest of it is pretty different.
Also, CFA has a heavy basis (throughout the curriculum) in Accounting and FSA which is not the case with FRM. FRM is a bit more quant than CFA but then quants actually get a weightage of only 10% in the total FRM curriculum and hence FRM is a lot of reading with quant techniques interspersed into it.
Sounds tempting to me...coz im really irritated with the amount of FSA involved in CFA...i guess its only gonna get worse in l2 and l3, right? I honestly dont see myself doing accounting or statements later in my career. I like being closer to the money, like in trading and front office (am i sounding naive here?). Also, im quite comfortable with quant, so that isnt much of a threat to me. Derivatives happens to be my fav topic in all of finance.
Frankly speaking, I will not advise you regarding going for FRM or CFA or dropping one for the other. I can only give you a bird's eye view of what lies on store for you if you pursue some option. The decision is yours but yes, an educated guess certainly points out to the fact that CFA for the kind of roles you want AS of NOW, is definitely an overkill and FRM is more relevant.
Hope that helps.
I guess i need to think really hard about my choices and make a decision quickly. Do you think with an engineering background, non-finance experience, familiarity with finance concepts (i have attepted the L1 once, u know!), and comfort with math will permit me to clear FRM this year if i start from scratch now? (Im willing to start studying immediately). Whats the expenses like?
Hi I m planning to enroll for FRM(hopefully 1st deadline) can you please briefly tell me the career progression in India , i mean will the FRM certification add weightage to my resume so that I can market myself to mainstream risk mgmt career area.also do you think 6-7 months of prep is enough considering a consistent study time of 3-4 hrs everyday.
Crash_test_dummy SaysValid point. I've read a lot about trading and hedge funds as career options and many sources say that it isnt a career option that you can sustain life long...too stressful, too demanding, etc etc. and after a while you just get burned out and wanna settle down for something less painful, like equity analysis or accounting or something (or if you've been reasonably successful at it for 10 years, you wont need to work again at all). I guess in that scenario, CFA is a good choice coz it opens up plenty of options for you to fall back on. But if thats the case, then i should go in for FRM to satisfy my short term goals and then go for CFA for my long term goals, right? Why do contingency planning 15 years in advance?!
My friend, why at all worry or even think of contingency planning 15 years down the line coz by then you will have the deadliest weapon in your aresnal- 15 years of work-experience. Isn't it? Frankly, its a choice you make now and then you have to reap the benefits. Pretty much like we study in "capital budgeting".
If you have been a derivatives trader for 15 years then you probably will be a derivatives strategist for some region (Asia, EMEA, NA etc) by then at Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Wachovia or you will be a really senior risk manager at some MF/Hedge Fund (why not think aggressively- you may be managing a private fund of yours through the contactss you develop in these years !). The possibilities are endless!
All the best !
HEY TUMTUM
APART FROM SCHWESER NOTES FOR FRM( AVAILABLIE AT MUMBAI AT LAXMI COPY CENTRE), WHAT OTHER BOOKS WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR CLEARING THE FRM EXAM. WILL hull SUFFICE ?dO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT THE COST OF THESE XEROX NOTES?
MAH
HEY TUMTUM
APART FROM SCHWESER NOTES FOR FRM( AVAILABLIE AT MUMBAI AT LAXMI COPY CENTRE), WHAT OTHER BOOKS WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR CLEARING THE FRM EXAM. WILL hull SUFFICE ?dO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT THE COST OF THESE XEROX NOTES?
MAH
I think Schweser notes is the most complete material. Hull alone wont suffice. Cost for 2006 material was INR 1400 (zeroxed) at Laxmi Zerox. the 2007 material will be available at May'07-end. So I don't know its cost yet.
Regards.
My friend, why at all worry or even think of contingency planning 15 years down the line coz by then you will have the deadliest weapon in your aresnal- 15 years of work-experience. Isn't it? Frankly, its a choice you make now and then you have to reap the benefits. Pretty much like we study in "capital budgeting".
If you have been a derivatives trader for 15 years then you probably will be a derivatives strategist for some region (Asia, EMEA, NA etc) by then at Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Wachovia or you will be a really senior risk manager at some MF/Hedge Fund (why not think aggressively- you may be managing a private fund of yours through the contactss you develop in these years !). The possibilities are endless!
All the best !
Hi I am sorry if am replying to a wrong message.I have enrolled into securities market programme from IICM and I also want to take up FRM alongside I have 2.5 yrs of exp in Reinsurance industry,after completion of SMP i want to work for an yr in equity research and then i would pursue MBA from any top schools.So I wnated to ask whether taking up FRM along with smp would make sense? and is it practical? or should i do it once i complete my MBA?? please give me your opinion on this
prasadhegde SaysHi I am sorry if am replying to a wrong message.I have enrolled into securities market programme from IICM and I also want to take up FRM alongside I have 2.5 yrs of exp in Reinsurance industry,after completion of SMP i want to work for an yr in equity research and then i would pursue MBA from any top schools.So I wnated to ask whether taking up FRM along with smp would make sense? and is it practical? or should i do it once i complete my MBA?? please give me your opinion on this
Hi Prasad.
Now look, I do understand that you want to make it to the best of b-schools and if you have less work-ex, then one way to strengthen your CV is be having a good academic record and probably a foreign degree such as FRM. But more than anything, I would reiterate something that I told CTD also.
This is a specialised course, and if your aim is to add weight to your CV by having it as a suffix after your name then I don't think it will help you much because
1) You won't be able to use the designation until you have 2 years of relevant work-ex.
2) All that you study will be a waste since you hardly will use any of it.
3) As you get into the grind of an MBA program, you may feel later on that doing all this for the very sake of making it to an MBA was not worth the effort or was not required!
4) For a career in research (you said in your post above that you want to work in Equity Research for a year), the SMP is far better suited than an FRM (which is totally unrelated to ER).
Also, my friend, do not underestimate the importance of the SMP. UTIICM is one of the fine professional education institutes in this field and it will definitely get you a good job after you graduate from it.
My take is, that FRM should be taken one a person starts function in a risk management role and not just for adding weight to CVs or to get into b-schools or for other purposes.
Hi Tumtum,
Currently I am working in an IT company as a Business Analyst in Banking and capital markets domain. I am an MBA in finance and a B.com (hon). My current job is not at all finance oriented and I am planning to switch in near future. I have been thinking about doing either FRM or CFA.
Just wanted to know is an FRM certificate widely recognized in India or from an Indian perspective I should go for a CFA. The only problem with CFA is the time constraint.
I am looking for a certificate/degree which would help me in long term to secure a good profile and package in India.
Please suggest which one should for.
Thanks
Hi Tumtum,
Just wanted to know is an FRM certificate widely recognized in India or from an Indian perspective I should go for a CFA. The only problem with CFA is the time constraint.
I am looking for a certificate/degree which would help me in long term to secure a good profile and package in India.
Please suggest which one should for.
Thanks
You asked the question to TumTum, but im tempted to post my view here:
If you are not clear about what domain within finance you want to work in, then go for CFA coz it'll give you a broad perspective and an option to choose any field you like later on in life. For a person who has little or no exposure to finance, or for someone who isnt sure about what career path to follow within finance, CFA is a good option. But since you've completed your MBA in finance, ideally you should know by now which field of finance you wish to enter. If that field happens to be risk management, go for FRM. If that field happens to be research or accounting, go for CFA. If you still dont know, the safer of the two options would be CFA coz it allows you to explore. FRM will restrict you to a narrow domain of risk and quant. If you go for FRM without thinking whether you want a career in risk, then you would be again stuck with a degree that leads you nowhere...you will be in the same position as you are now...doing work that is unrelated to your qualification. A person interviewing you for accounting or research will not be as impressed with your FRM as he would be with your CFA. So think about your career and then decide the degree needed, rather than earn a degree that is popular and then decide what career that degree will allow you to follow. As for your question, CFA is more widely recognized in india by the general headhunter crowd and FRM is well recognized by the risk management ppl. Basically, FRM is the equivalent of CFA in the risk-management world.
I found a good blog for FRM discussion..check it out:
frm exam prep