Hey BaccardiSprite,
Thanks for all the wisdom and gyan on this thread.
I am currently a UG student at BITS doing a double degree in Economics/Electronics Engg. I hope you can provide me with some insight wrt my future options. As a part of my curriculum, I will be taking up 2 internships of around 4-5 months each. My ultimate goal is not clearly defined yet, but I wanted to try out internships in 2 fields ie Economic Research and Consulting, which is possible for me as a part of the program, and might help me get a foot in the door for analyst position at Deloitte or something like that in India. I am also thinking about applying to top MA Economics programs in Canada and 1 year MSc at LSE after the completion of my degrees at BITS, inclusive of the internship.
From my limited knowledge, I'd like to ultimately work in one of these areas - Consulting, Economic Policy & Research (non academia/intl organisations/business think tanks)
My questions are :
1) Assume that I get an offer for analyst position at Deloitte India - If I ultimately wish to work in Consulting would you recommend rejecting the indian job offer & going ahead with MA Economics in top Canada unis or LSE MSc Econ? Or should I take up the offer, scrap plans of Masters, get some experience, and head for an MBA after that? Or should I get the MA, then get work exp and then get an MBA (i'd have more knowledge, ive heard having specific competencies helps in consulting)
2) What are the non academia/non PhD options for Economics masters' grads in Canada & the UK? Considering that London is more well known for finance/I banking rather than consulting, is it safe to proceed to LSE with a consulting career in mind? Majority of the MA Econ Canada grads head for a PhD, so I've not been able to figure out much about the Canadian scene either. I'd appreciate any input/links/resources you can put in.
3) If I am not able to secure a satisfactory job after UG in India, but finally aim for a consulting career, should I first get an Econ Masters, and then think of an MBA.. Or should I chuck the Econ Masters, get work exp and head for an MBA
Some of my queries might seem naive, but I'd really appreciate if you could answer them, all these are things i need to sort out inside my head in the next year to get a clear idea of what my future options are like.
Thanks in advance.
Regards.
Hi baccardisprite,
Can you please about the Masters programs for Operation Research or Management Science which will accept GMAT score and not GRE score?
Basically my backgorund is 2007 passout from NIT Trichy and I loved the Numerical Methods and Operations subjects which we have in our curriculum. Then I joined a Bank Software unit but I think for me real passion still lies in Mathematics. And application area where Maths is dominantly used is Operations Research. Although even I want to have control over the things for which I might have to learn management but still I want to go for my first love ie Maths.
Can you please tell me the scope of Operations Research too,. As far as I have read it can be used in Operations Management, Market or Finance Analytics..
Thanks in advance..
Can you please about the Masters programs for Operation Research or Management Science which will accept GMAT score and not GRE score?
Basically my backgorund is 2007 passout from NIT Trichy and I loved the Numerical Methods and Operations subjects which we have in our curriculum. Then I joined a Bank Software unit but I think for me real passion still lies in Mathematics. And application area where Maths is dominantly used is Operations Research. Although even I want to have control over the things for which I might have to learn management but still I want to go for my first love ie Maths.
Can you please tell me the scope of Operations Research too,. As far as I have read it can be used in Operations Management, Market or Finance Analytics..
Thanks in advance..
Hi baccardisprite,
Thanks for your explanation. A loooong one is exactly what I wanted to get as much clarity on this topic as possible so thanks for that :)
One more question, since you have been working in Switzerland, just wanted to know what are the kind of opportunities for product management available in Europe? I know that US is the hotbed of PM related activities but just wanted to know what's the scene in Europe? Especially in software, online media and consumer/industrial electronic products.
Najmuddin
Thanks for your explanation. A loooong one is exactly what I wanted to get as much clarity on this topic as possible so thanks for that :)
One more question, since you have been working in Switzerland, just wanted to know what are the kind of opportunities for product management available in Europe? I know that US is the hotbed of PM related activities but just wanted to know what's the scene in Europe? Especially in software, online media and consumer/industrial electronic products.
Najmuddin
no doubt about it being the rite course but not sure about the right time for experienced guys like me, najmuddin,other puys to join.
just trying to put things in perspective..
Just to put things in perspective...
First of all, MS&E; is a top notch program and in Stanford University. The university's name alone makes the competition for all its programs extremely fierce, and MS&E; is no exception. Although prior work-ex is not required, but even with work-ex it's pretty difficult to get an admit. Further, the admission committee puts a lot of importance on academics, research work & publications apart from work-ex, like all the other MS programs.
Stanford has quality applicant from around the world, so if an Indian student wants to edge out the competition, he needs to have super quality work-ex combined with extremely high GRE score to compensate for lack of other factors in his profile. Also, you might need an IIT/BITS/NIT stamp on your degree to back up your application.
I know all this because I had applied to MS&E; this year without success. I know a couple of ppl with better GRE scores who didn't make the cut.
Further as an international student in the US job market, it would be really beneficial and almost necessary to have some prior work-ex, although that makes you feel a little bit older in the class.
I'd also like to mention something about the LFM program since on this thread quite a few times baccardisprite has pointed towards it.
LFM is a highly competitive program and if you look at the student profile, all of them are nearly exceptional. The average age of students is even slightly higher than that of Sloan MBA and so is the case with average work-ex. They need prior work-ex in manufacturing or operations. Also, they don't even conduct their interviews in India. The closest location is Singapore.
Obviously I am not discouraging anyone from applying, but just want everyone to be sure about the expectations of the admission committee. Please visit the LFM homepage to get more clarity.
Further, while applying for an MS in top US universities like MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Michigan etc, one needs to be aware that these universities give a lot of weightage to academics, research, publications, extra-curriculars etc and work-ex simply can't compensate for a lack of these critical components in your profile (there are exceptions of course). Further, the Indian work-ex in IT would rarely help.
I feel that the preparation for application to these universities should start early, preferably in the first or second year of the undergrad degree itself.
I would request baccardisprite to guide us all on this particular issue. Since most of the Puys here have already completed their degrees or are near completion, we can't go back and change anything related to academics or research. So if an average guy like me, who is not the topper of his batch/university, doesn't have significant research experience, has no papers published under his name or has none co-authored, but instead has quality work-ex (maybe for some in R&D;), has leadership experience or possibly something to demonstrate the leadership potential, has good extra-curricular activities etc wants to take a shot and apply, what should he do? What should one show in his profile which can make it attractive despite lacking in other areas like those mentioned above?
I guess a stellar GRE score (eg. >1550) can help only to a certain extent, but not beyond that.
Just to make myself clear, I am talking about this from the perspective of ALL MS programs, including those in industrial engg and operations, also MS&E; to a certain extent.
These are my personal views. Apologies if anywhere in my post I have misrepresented the facts or messed up with available information.
Regards,
Najmuddin
hey,
Iam kinnari.Iam looking at Msc. in management or masters in international business. I have dne a five year BBA LLB course from symbiosis,pune. As iam a fresh graduate an MBA abroad is not possiblle.Ihave a few questions an wuld like advice on:-
1) what is the value of the abovementioned courses?
2)Iam looking at a particular college- GREENOBLE.According to the FT ranking ,its the 4th best.
Greenoble offers both the abovementioned courses in greenoble which is in france and in london.In london the campus would be london school of business.I was wondering if it is beeter to do it on the main campus ot on-site that is greenoble or in london as it is the hub of all kinds activity?
Please help me !
hey,
Iam kinnari.Iam looking at Msc. in management or masters in international business. I have dne a five year BBA LLB course from symbiosis,pune. As iam a fresh graduate an MBA abroad is not possiblle.Ihave a few questions an wuld like advice on:-
1) what is the value of the abovementioned courses?
2)Iam looking at a particular college- GREENOBLE.According to the FT ranking ,its the 4th best.
Greenoble offers both the abovementioned courses in greenoble which is in france and in london.In london the campus would be london school of business.I was wondering if it is beeter to do it on the main campus ot on-site that is greenoble or in london as it is the hub of all kinds activity?
Please help me !
Why wouldn't you want to work now? It's actually a pretty good time to be a lawyer. You've been studying for 5 years already.
Masters in plain vanilla management / business is not very valuable unless you speak the local language of the country you study in (or one of the major EU languages). Language is a critical skill and in most cases, mandatory for the jobs you seek in the European mainland. In the UK, would recommend to go for a major UK university, and even then a more quantitatively focussed program like Finance, Decision Sciences, Econometrics, Financial Law etc.... If you want to do one of the management or international business programs, spend a 1-2 years learning a language before taking the plunge.
All the above said though, please consider gaining some experience, whatever the salary you need to start at. Unlike many people in IT, you have the opportunity to begin a career in a core operative / administrative function of an organization or law firm. Strongly recommend you take it.
Good luck
Hi baccardisprite,
Thanks for your explanation. A loooong one is exactly what I wanted to get as much clarity on this topic as possible so thanks for that :)
One more question, since you have been working in Switzerland, just wanted to know what are the kind of opportunities for product management available in Europe? I know that US is the hotbed of PM related activities but just wanted to know what's the scene in Europe? Especially in software, online media and consumer/industrial electronic products.
Najmuddin
I think you should get opportunities in the EU, if you're specially bringing pre-education experience in High-tech (non IT), Telecom, Consumer Durables, Consumer Healthcare, Life Sciences (pharma / biotech), precision engineering (aerospace, electronics etc...)... You probably know all the major names 😃
Two friends I know are in product management (their titles might be different) or closely related roles in a major Dutch MNC in Holland, while a third is an Anglo/Dutch FMCG group you probably know.
What're the things that'll help get you there:
- confident (if not fluent) use of a major EU language, hopefully the home language of the company you work in
- Good focussed technology / management education
- Experience gained before your Masters that yoou can reasonably transfer to your new job, that's reasonably specialized for any company to make a good enough case for their National authorities to grant you a work / residence permit.
- Technically qualified people recruited by big name companies do manage to get work-permits; but it's not always easy.
If you're looking at Europe as a destination - do consider some of the major European Universities as well - I recall mentioning Delft, ETH Zurich & EPF Lausanne earlier on this thread (was it to you?). All three are extremely well known globally (they'll easily come up in any major Global University ranking), and have particularly strong links to local / EU industry (both corporate as well as entrepreneurial).
Cheerz & Good luck
dillu.ideal111 Saysi m doin my final year M.Sc in software engineering(5 years integrated course). I think i can study more, ie an MBA(USA/ Aus), i hope some1 can guide me... wat are d xams i should prepare for???how much would it cost(both in USA & Aus)? hope u keep me posted...
Some feedback - no one will keep you posted! You have to do the basic research yourself. Such questions make you appear, lazy, less-than-serious and totally uncommitted to what you seek. Use the net to conduct some research of your own, find out the above information (pretty basic) and come back with specific questions as & when you have them.
Hey BaccardiSprite,
Thanks for all the wisdom and gyan on this thread.
I am currently a UG student at BITS doing a double degree in Economics/Electronics Engg. I hope you can provide me with some insight wrt my future options. As a part of my curriculum, I will be taking up 2 internships of around 4-5 months each. My ultimate goal is not clearly defined yet, but I wanted to try out internships in 2 fields ie Economic Research and Consulting, which is possible for me as a part of the program, and might help me get a foot in the door for analyst position at Deloitte or something like that in India. I am also thinking about applying to top MA Economics programs in Canada and 1 year MSc at LSE after the completion of my degrees at BITS, inclusive of the internship.
From my limited knowledge, I'd like to ultimately work in one of these areas - Consulting, Economic Policy & Research (non academia/intl organisations/business think tanks)
My questions are :
1) Assume that I get an offer for analyst position at Deloitte India - If I ultimately wish to work in Consulting would you recommend rejecting the indian job offer & going ahead with MA Economics in top Canada unis or LSE MSc Econ? Or should I take up the offer, scrap plans of Masters, get some experience, and head for an MBA after that? Or should I get the MA, then get work exp and then get an MBA (i'd have more knowledge, ive heard having specific competencies helps in consulting)
2) What are the non academia/non PhD options for Economics masters' grads in Canada & the UK? Considering that London is more well known for finance/I banking rather than consulting, is it safe to proceed to LSE with a consulting career in mind? Majority of the MA Econ Canada grads head for a PhD, so I've not been able to figure out much about the Canadian scene either. I'd appreciate any input/links/resources you can put in.
3) If I am not able to secure a satisfactory job after UG in India, but finally aim for a consulting career, should I first get an Econ Masters, and then think of an MBA.. Or should I chuck the Econ Masters, get work exp and head for an MBA
Some of my queries might seem naive, but I'd really appreciate if you could answer them, all these are things i need to sort out inside my head in the next year to get a clear idea of what my future options are like.
Thanks in advance.
Regards.
You'd have spent 5 valuable years of your life getting a valuable degree from a top notch institution. Without experience, another 1-2 years for a masters degree is highly unlikely to add any further value (professional, notional or financial) to your career / life.
So spend 3-4 years with Deloitte or wherever (in consulting or research), gain skills, experience and knowledge of at least 2-3 industries. The experience and industry knowledge would in combination with a future Masters Degree in Economics, Policy etc.. or even an MBA - help you present an immensely more attractive profile to your future employers.
As for getting a job after UG - Mate, you're a BITS graduate! Surely you can be more self-confident?!!!
Cheerz & Good luck
Hello Baccardisprite. Really appreciate the way you have been answering the queries. Kudos to you! I am a 2008 pass out engineer in Electronics and Communication working with a semiconductor company since last 10 months. I really want to switch my domain to Finance or something which couples Finance and Mathematics(because of my interest in Mathematics). Considering that i apply for Fall 2010, i would have two years of work-ex by then. Could you suggest colleges which give opportunity to people with less work-ex. I have been going through different programs and have found MFE from Oxford and Msc in Finance and Economics from LSE quite interesting. Any inputs on these courses or any other course which you think would suit my profile.
Thanks baccardisprite .
I am planning for 2011 admissions , Like you said London /NYC are pretty screwed place for finance jobs right now . I will be trying for LBS MiF (if I get a 700+ GMAT) ,that apart how is MFE from Oxford ? I have done a basic research on the curriculam etc but I want to know how difficuilt is it to get an admit from these schools .It would be really helpful if you could name a few good schools that offer MSc Fin in US or any resource where I can research myself .Unlike MBA , MSc fin programmes in US are not that spoken of (no ranking or any databse ) so it is a bit difficuilt to select the schools.
I can't comment on the wisdom of decisions. What I always recommend is to conduct what we in business call "due diligence" - check the probable risks and consequences of those risks that could arise out of decisions. If they're acceptable - go ahead. If they aren't or can't be mitigated / eliminated, then don't go ahead.
Don't know about abroad, but the MFC @ DU is actually more recognized in India than people give it credit for. I would suggest the below due diligence steps before committing to it:
- Try and understand the profile of current students (both years), and check their experience profile. This should "indicate" the type of people you're studying with.
- Then check out the companies and (more importantly) the roles / positions they got into. Their jobs are likely to be 100% in the field of finance, but with what kind of companies and what kind of roles - management trainee or more assistant / associate manager or even manager level roles...Best would be to get the school to put you in touch with 2009 graduates (best would be if you found someone with your pre-program experience profile) - so you can get in touch with them and ask them about the program.
- If you find that most are fresh grads at entry and roles are at the junior most level, one might wonder whether the career services is geared only to those levels and perhaps they might find it difficult to manage your expectations in terms of companies on campus and the roles offered.
The MFC is quality wise quite good - it's a proper DU Master's Degree and has been successfully sending people into good financial careers for over 30 years now. I knew about it back in 96 when I graduated college.
HI BaccardiSprite,
I have one more query and now again looking towards you for the answer,
actually i was quite cofirmed for joining the MFC, now recently i met one of my friend who told me that MBA has an edge over MFC, i mean whenever there will be some manegerial level post, preference will be given to an MBA not an MFC (DU),
I am little confused, should i drop my plan to join this year and prapare for GMAT, so that i can join some good B-School, which can justify my 5- year experience,
or should i stick to my decision to join MFC ( as per your suggestions i had a talk with few seniors about the role being offered at MFC, and i find it quite good, roles are mid managerial to senior managerial level, alumni of MFC is also doing quite good, though they are less in no but they are at good at hierarchy)
cant i go for CFA along with MFC, will that be good for my future growth.
can you tell me the exact difference between MFC and MBA,
can my 4 years of experience (with 3 yrs in IT) and an MFC degree cant help me to go higher in life.
i know qsns are more, but waiting desparately to listen from you.
Thanks and Regards
Just so you'll know, baccardisprite was recently voted "GMAT/International MBA Guru"
Official Announcement: http://www.pagalguy.com/forum/pagalguy-community-events-pg-meets/39907-puyscars-pagal-awards-2008-09-a-5.html#post1542463
Hark now, hear his words more carefully 😃
Hello friends,
Congrats baccardisprite
I am Niraj from Pune.
B.Tech Electrical Engineering
CGPA 6.27/10
Extra curricular: I was active participant of Limca and Guinness World Records event in college
Work Ex: 9 months in service industry
not appeared GMAT/IELTS..shall be appearing by December 2009
I want to take admission for MSc Finance and Management in UK.
I am hoping admission in Imperial, CASS, Lancaster, Cranfield with same preference in October 2010 intake
Now my queries
1. How much i need to score in GMAT to cover my less CGPA/will good GMAT score cover my less CGPA?
2. Is there any ideal period to apply to these schools?
3. How much are these courses recognized in India if i wish to work here in India?
4. Can anyone have information about current job opportunities after these courses?
Thanks and Regards
Niraj
My questions are :
1) Assume that I get an offer for analyst position at Deloitte India - If I ultimately wish to work in Consulting would you recommend rejecting the indian job offer & going ahead with MA Economics in top Canada unis or LSE MSc Econ? Or should I take up the offer, scrap plans of Masters, get some experience, and head for an MBA after that? Or should I get the MA, then get work exp and then get an MBA (i'd have more knowledge, ive heard having specific competencies helps in consulting)
Regards.
if you are so unlucky to get an offer from Deloitte India -- My advise is to leave it then and there.
One thing is for sure -- Deloitte experience will surely pull you back and will be negative point on your CV (well I have worked for 3 yrs at Deloitte and then joined iimcal - had Deloitte name not there on my CV I would be much better placed)
I m Jeeth
I completed BBA from Madras Christian College
CGPA 7.7/10
I want to know which would be the best course that has better job prospectus ( since i was thinking of joining international business) from UK
And what do you think of university of Bath ?
Thanks u in advance
Hi baccardisprite,
Thanks a lot for all the help you are doing. Sorry but I am posting my query again because it got missed..
I want to do my specialization in Operations Research and Management Science as I am more interested in knowing about the Quantitaive Methods used in the research on the basis of which decisions are taken in Finance, Marketing and Operations domain.
I came across one course in Sauder School of Business (THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA) which is Master of Management in Operation Research. I feel this is exactly what I want to do.. I dont want to take just Operation Research course because apart from Techniques I am also interested in application and decision which can be taken using it..
For admission to this course they take both GMAT and GRE scores... I will be giving GMAT so I can use that score for applying here..
Please tell me about other B-schools which offer specialization in above field?
And also Please do tell what are the career prospects if I want to take electives related to above mentioned field only and not particularly in Finance, Marketing, Consultancy or Operations as such.
Hello friends,
Congrats baccardisprite
I am Niraj from Pune.
B.Tech Electrical Engineering
CGPA 6.27/10
Extra curricular: I was active participant of Limca and Guinness World Records event in college
Work Ex: 9 months in service industry
not appeared GMAT/IELTS..shall be appearing by December 2009
I want to take admission for MSc Finance and Management in UK.
I am hoping admission in Imperial, CASS, Lancaster, Cranfield with same preference in October 2010 intake
Now my queries
1. How much i need to score in GMAT to cover my less CGPA/will good GMAT score cover my less CGPA?
2. Is there any ideal period to apply to these schools?
3. How much are these courses recognized in India if i wish to work here in India?
4. Can anyone have information about current job opportunities after these courses?
Thanks and Regards
Niraj
1. GMAT is just one indicator, but I would encourage anyone to prepare well enough to score ~700 or over.
2. As early as possible after admissions to a particular class open.
3. Unless a big name global school, which none of these schools are, I would recommend studying in India to work in India. If you want to study abroad, aim to work abroad for a few years before returning to India, as then your experience would count for more than your education.
4. Ask the school (adcomm) and ask them to connect you to Alumni from India who have graduated the program. The financial industry is not the best place to be right now. Opportunities might arise as the economies recover. Right now, finance in London is not good.
Good luck
Hi baccardisprite,
Thanks a lot for all the help you are doing. Sorry but I am posting my query again because it got missed..
I want to do my specialization in Operations Research and Management Science as I am more interested in knowing about the Quantitaive Methods used in the research on the basis of which decisions are taken in Finance, Marketing and Operations domain.
I came across one course in Sauder School of Business (THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA) which is Master of Management in Operation Research. I feel this is exactly what I want to do.. I dont want to take just Operation Research course because apart from Techniques I am also interested in application and decision which can be taken using it..
For admission to this course they take both GMAT and GRE scores... I will be giving GMAT so I can use that score for applying here..
Please tell me about other B-schools which offer specialization in above field?
And also Please do tell what are the career prospects if I want to take electives related to above mentioned field only and not particularly in Finance, Marketing, Consultancy or Operations as such.
Georgia Tech (www.isye.gatech.edu), M.S Industrial & Systems Engineering - specializing in Economic Decision Analysis!
Stanford - Management Science & Engineering
Purdue - Industrial Engineering
U Michigan - Industrial Engineering
Berkeley - the same
So many options - Operations Research, Industrial Systems Engineering, Management Science, Decision Science will all have Economic Analysis and Decision science courses in their programs in one form or another.
If you're serious about this go for a big name school with a strong Industrial Engineering / Operations Research Program. You might need GRE for these programs instead of the GMAT.
I would think the career prospects are excellent in Strategic Operational functions involving Strategic Sourcing, Complexity Management, Supply Chain Optimization... Industries could include most core and precision engineering / manufacturing (FMCG, Life Sciences, Consumer Durables and electronics, Devices and technologies, Semiconductors etc..), logistics & transportation....
Good luck
hi pgs .... nikhil here
i wanted some advice ... i am a bbm graduate with 72 % .... got 93% in boards ... 690 in gmat and 8 in ielts .... as i am a fresher i wont be acceptable for MBA in good bschools ... i was looking forward to do my masters and then come back to india to start my own business ... i wanted to know which course should i pursue which will help me in setting up my own business .. something like entrepreneurship and would be helpful if u could list some of the universities and the courses which i could apply for
thanks