International educational options beyond the MBA

Hi baccardisprite, this is avishek. I just want your opinion about my career. My profile is
Xth-84%
XIIth-62%
BTech(CS)-7.94/10
workexp-2.5 yrs in an indian IT major
I took study leave and prepared for MBA this year. I appeared for CAT and some other exams. In spite of being called back several times from my company I neglected it because I wanted to give my MBA aspirations a good chance this time. Now the situation is the chances of my company taking me back is bleak. I am just wondering about the back up plans I should look for if the MBA' plan doesn't prosper this time...can you suggest anything?? btw I was just looking at this thread and I really appretiate the way you are guiding so many people. p.s.- is it "baccardisprite" or "baccardi sprite"?!!


It's Baccardisprite (one word).

An unfortunate situation. Advice to all reading - NEVER take a sabbatical or study-leave in your early 20's. This is the time when the body is fit and the mind intellectually most willing, therefore work and study should be undertaken (as far as possible) simultaneously. Secondly - early 20's is the stage where a company can substitute or replace one quite easily, in other words one is junior enough to be replaced.

For Aviedu's specific case, you need to do several things - try and stay in the job market and not allow too large a gap, use the next 2-3 years to be truly clear about your long term career objectives (function, industry / company, geography) and then decide on the steps forward accordingly.

For your plans moving forward, various things:

- Write a comprehensive letter to your boss in your company & the HR / recruiting manager, clarifying why you wanted to take the time off, and without sounding too overtly apologetic, request a recall to your job confirming your commitment to stay. While getting the call back to work might be less likely, it's worth a try.

- start looking for another job immediately unless already doing so.

Whatever the outcome of the search, be sure to stay on the job, acquire some skills, gain some career progress and most importantly be clear about your long term career goals before going for the education (MBA or Masters) consistent with that goal.

Cheerz & Good luck.
MY POST IS GOING TO BE LONG AS I AM LOOKING FOR SPECIFIC DETAILS AND PROVIDING ALL THE INPUTS I CUD THINK FOR. SORRY FOR THE INCONVINIENCE :D

My profile is as follows

10th , 12th - 78% , 75 % .
BE( 2008 ) in electronics and comm. ( with no knowledge about either ) 68 %.
NCFM - (i)beginners and (ii)derivatives - both 80% + scores.
DELF A1 ( diploma in french ) , persuing DELF A2.
Strong and diverse extra currics.
Converted MDI (HR) in 08 but decided against it.
Definately gettin a call from SIBM/ SCMHRD this year and will convert it.
Apperaing for GMAT in Feb (will prefer going abroad Vs studying in India).
GRE score 1400 ( quanta 800) (analyt - 4.5 )

For the last 13 months i have been working in an IT MNC (India's largest by no. of employees (easy guess !). I have been working in retail domain on projects for a confectionary manufacturing client ( the one KRAFT is eyeing for ! ) . I have been exposed to concepts of SCM and retail and have done a company internal certification in retail - recognised only within this company.

Except for initial 3 months (when i worked on SAP -ABAP programming ) i have been working on technical support that too of the lowest possible quality i assume . Plus I am not learning anything here.
I therefore want to pursue further studies and quit this job ( as I am not getting released from this Fu**** up project )

I have no clearly defined professional goals, however after having gone through available options i found two those interest me -

1. Finance
2. SCM -Logistics/operations)

I will be going for further studies by June '10 (if in India) or latest by jan'11 (if abroad ). Of these two I will pursue the one for which i can get into a better college.

I had earliar thought about an MBA but after going through this thread I felt there is much more beyond MBA. I have some doubts -

#1. Given that i have no work experience in logistics/ SCM is it wise (and possible ? ) to get an admission in the masters' courses that you mentioned like from georgia tech or MSc in logistics / TLI , MLOG etc.

#2. Are such courses better than MBA in SCM/operations
(lets say from SIBM/SCMHRD or foreign univ's which admit ppl with =
#3. With my profile i dont think i will get into a top B-school for MBA finance abroad so in this case -
Would MBA finance (attempting CFA on the side ) from India be better or going for Masters in Finance (u mentioned some earliar) .

#4. ( pretty vague question ) I find both Finance and SCM interesting , but as a career option given my profile which is better / more fesable for me.

any course that has combination of SCM and Finance and admits ( that too when my workex in in IT )


I'll start by being critical (bear with me). The tone you take towards your current project is rather disrespectful. Isn't this the career "you" chose? It was 2008 when you graduated, and the Indian economy had progressed well enough to present career opportunities in a lot of fields besides just IT. A previous poster entered the Automobile industry after a Comp Science BE!! Point is - don't throw your hands up in a huff just yet. You have chosen this career and the onus is on you to make the most of what you have. You cannot be learning nothing!!

Clearly, you have learnt something in retail & SCM, which is great as retail is & will continue to be India's fastest growing industry for a while, and advanced SCM (stuff like Decision modelling based on competitive cost, best quality, location and supply networks, Optimization for fastest and most cost effective delivery to customers and consumers) is absolutely the key enabler of the industry's growth. And yes, it's absolutely possible to marry supply chain & finance. Meaning more like financial control, project management, capex and major investments, decision modelling, large scale make v buy (all major elements of Management Finance & Accounting), and internal /corporate audit. Many senior corporate finance executives cut their teeth in the operational finance departments of their companies.

Recommendations:

- Stay at work until 2011 at least, patiently continue to learn what you can, and display enough motivation to achieve some career progress, skills and a degree of expertise (whatever the level / quality) that you can get about retail / SCM, while acquiring knowledge and basic qualifications about finance (CFA is one, CIMA or ICWAI is another).

- Prepare for the GMAT diligently and patience, and try scoring 720+
- Look for an MBA in 2011, with specialiations or elective concentrations in Operations, Finance and Strategy
- Learn a foreign language in this period and make yourself attractive to your future employer.

In a slightly different scenario, try and get a core functional (not IT) job with a retail major in India, you're young enough to make the change now. Stick with that new job for 3-4 years, acquire a set of skills, experience and career progress and then think about an MBA.

Apologies if I have (deliberately) NOT answered your specific questions, but your issues lie in the first half of your message, not the bottom half.

Take a long term view....... first.

Cheerz & All the best for 2010 and beyond.
aynaval Says
Thanks for this post...even though very politically correct. Pls mention all such programs you come across. So many people do a MBA cos they don't know what to do.


Thanks for the feedback, but I didn't really get the "politically correct" part. Care to clarify? Cheerz & Thanks.
Hi ,
Can you guide me on the MBA FRONT.
My profile is:
1) 10th : 76
2) 12th : 68
3) Bachelor engineering. : 70
4) Work Ex: 2 years in Reliance Industries Ltd ( Petrochemical Refining) as an engineer in Manufacturing.
5) Average Extra Curricular Activities/ No National/State level Certificates.
6) A very average academics.
I have written CAT twice and scored around 90%le.As there are time constraints because of job.
Can u guide me on the following-
1) Now I am confused between doing MBA from Non IIM Top 10 B schools or going for GMAT with this profile
2) Which ranking B schools abroad I can expect to get an admission with this profile?
3) What Extra should be done to improve my chance of getting better B school ?
4) Some other management programme u want to suggest.
You can send me mail on [email protected] and [email protected].


What do you want to do after an MBA / Other Masters? In other words, what are your long term career goals (function, industry / company and geography)? Would you like to continue in O&G; / Petrochem / Energy etc.. or do something else, somewhere else for some other company / industry? Tell me this, or take the time to think these over,be clear in your mind and post again!

All the best.

Hi guys..
My problem is as usual for u i guess.. But its weird for me to handle..
I have Completed B.Tech in Computer stream.. Got placed In IT company..Didnt yet get my Doj..
I have written Cat,xat,snap.. but couldn't do well in those exams..
My academics are good enough..
X-84%
XII-94.4%
B.Tech-8.19/10..(2009 passout)
Plz suggest me any further future plans..

moulik.kumar Says
Hey there, I am Btech in mechanical engineering currently working for an automobile co. I was wondering if pursuing diploma in Economics through distance learning programme from LSE is worth it.. My furture plan is do an MBA but since i am interested in economics i might as well explore the subject till i get thru MBA .. is it a good idea? will it fetch any brownie points in my CV? Thanks


Do it if you're passionate about Economics, NOT because of brownie points on your CV. As advised to the other automobile industry guy (poster = kevink), be patient - learn the industry, learn your job, acquire transferable skills, be clear in your mind about your long term career, then seek the education consistent with those goals.

All the best.
Hi guys..
My problem is as usual for u i guess.. But its weird for me to handle..
I have Completed B.Tech in Computer stream.. Got placed In IT company..Didnt yet get my Doj..
I have written Cat,xat,snap.. but couldn't do well in those exams..
My academics are good enough..
X-84%
XII-94.4%
B.Tech-8.19/10..(2009 passout)
Plz suggest me any further future plans..


Why couldn't you do well in those exams? Why only IT, why not something else? How can any one else suggest future plans for you? What prevents you from diligently preparing for these tests and appearing for them again?

I donno dude.. Everything went wrong in those exams.. Not IT.. Planning to do MBA.. if i prepare for cat2010 then i will lose 2years.. I am not asking you to plan a future for me.. Just any suggestions.. Its also linked with my financial position.. thats y couldn't write GRE or any other..

And i have some Ad-concepts.. i dono how to move with those concepts.. May be I am a typical guy to handle..

mahesh155 Says
I donno dude.. Everything went wrong in those exams.. Not IT.. Planning to do MBA.. if i prepare for cat2010 then i will lose 2years.. I am not asking you to plan a future for me.. Just any suggestions.. Its also linked with my financial position.. thats y couldn't write GRE or any other..


Dude.... 😃

Those were suggestions, expressed as questions to open avenues of thought for you. You haven't started on your job yet and seem to have achieved very little (normal at your age), how will you lose 2 years of anything?

Suggestion - note these questions down, take a long ride on your bike down the ECR, sit by the beach and think along the lines of those questions! If you notice, you will find that all of these are open questions(i.e none can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no").

Cheerz and good luck.

Thanks man.. i thought they were questions.. i 'l think abt it and get back to u..

Hi,

Am Working in TCS for 2 Yrs and am really feeling desperate to have a career change. I have written CAT and XAT with a little prep which i dont think will have a good result. Am not deciding Mba as career but trying other options as well. I have identified that i am interested in

--> Human resource + psychology
--> Economics (little of Policy management & Environment Management)

Can i club these areas of interest and have highers in a good institute so that i have a good scope there after in my career ??

Please help.

My acad profile is as follows :

10th ICSE : 78 %
12th StateBoard : 92 %
BE:CSE : 72 %
Work exp : 2 Yrs

Thanking you,
doubleseven

Thankyou for all that supercool information! :cheerio: Well, and I have a few questions,
I have completed my B.Sc. in biotech and bioinformatics(first class; '09) and would like to proceed my studies in business.

1.would it be an MSM or MBA that you'd recommend for me?

2. Is it the MSM from a reputed institute or an MBA from an average B school that is better?
(I have a choice of an MBA from James cook university)

3. Is it Europe or singapore universities (not the top B schools)that has a better exposure for freshers and preferable? (if not what other country??cost parameters matter)

4. or should I do masters in management and then after a few years of work, an MBA?

5.which offers more job openings for freshers,better as a career starter,preferred by employers and pays better? (MBA or MSM)

6.specialization in MBA is better?

If it is masters it would be International business, marketing, human resource or entrepreneurship.

If it is MBA it would be general MBA.

is there anything else you would recommend for me?
if you could help with this you have no idea what a breakthrough you'd have made!:biggrin:
coz I came up with these questions EVENTUALLY, VERY EVENTUALLY
HELP!!!!

P.S.my math skills are not very interesting.

:cheers:

I'll start by being critical (bear with me). The tone you take towards your current project is rather disrespectful. Isn't this the career "you" chose? It was 2008 when you graduated, and the Indian economy had progressed well enough to present career opportunities in a lot of fields besides just IT. A previous poster entered the Automobile industry after a Comp Science BE!! Point is - don't throw your hands up in a huff just yet. You have chosen this career and the onus is on you to make the most of what you have. You cannot be learning nothing!!

Clearly, you have learnt something in retail & SCM, which is great as retail is & will continue to be India's fastest growing industry for a while, and advanced SCM (stuff like Decision modelling based on competitive cost, best quality, location and supply networks, Optimization for fastest and most cost effective delivery to customers and consumers) is absolutely the key enabler of the industry's growth. And yes, it's absolutely possible to marry supply chain & finance. Meaning more like financial control, project management, capex and major investments, decision modelling, large scale make v buy (all major elements of Management Finance & Accounting), and internal /corporate audit. Many senior corporate finance executives cut their teeth in the operational finance departments of their companies.

Recommendations:

- Stay at work until 2011 at least, patiently continue to learn what you can, and display enough motivation to achieve some career progress, skills and a degree of expertise (whatever the level / quality) that you can get about retail / SCM, while acquiring knowledge and basic qualifications about finance (CFA is one, CIMA or ICWAI is another).

- Prepare for the GMAT diligently and patience, and try scoring 720+
- Look for an MBA in 2011, with specialiations or elective concentrations in Operations, Finance and Strategy
- Learn a foreign language in this period and make yourself attractive to your future employer.

In a slightly different scenario, try and get a core functional (not IT) job with a retail major in India, you're young enough to make the change now. Stick with that new job for 3-4 years, acquire a set of skills, experience and career progress and then think about an MBA.

Apologies if I have (deliberately) NOT answered your specific questions, but your issues lie in the first half of your message, not the bottom half.

Take a long term view....... first.

Cheerz & All the best for 2010 and beyond.


Thanks for the guidence. I am planning to go for MBA in jan 2011. The reason i am not to fond of this job is -
(i) The current project is such that where i have to follow a list of predifined functions - no scope of applying my brain or learning .
(ii) Having fullfilled all the requirements (certifications n all specifically recommended by the company ) for a finance based project i was not put in one.

Still thanks for the guidelines, i m looking forward towards CFA and further studies in 2011 Jan now. However if you come across any such course that combines finance and SCM , please let me know.
I found about one in Delft , but it requres 75 + graduation percentage.
mahesh155 Says
Thanks man.. i thought they were questions.. i 'l think abt it and get back to u..


Yes, do that.... It's worth your time and the effort.
Good luck
Hi,

Am Working in TCS for 2 Yrs and am really feeling desperate to have a career change. I have written CAT and XAT with a little prep which i dont think will have a good result. Am not deciding Mba as career but trying other options as well. I have identified that i am interested in

--> Human resource + psychology
--> Economics (little of Policy management & Environment Management)

Can i club these areas of interest and have highers in a good institute so that i have a good scope there after in my career ??

Please help.

My acad profile is as follows :

10th ICSE : 78 %
12th StateBoard : 92 %
BE:CSE : 72 %
Work exp : 2 Yrs

Thanking you,
doubleseven


What prevents you from preparing diligently for the CAT / XAT and trying again? While your honesty (about being unprepared for these exams) is commendable, I just find you unnecessarily underconfident...

To your second question, yes its possible to marry economics and psychology, however to study these in a foreign university and maximize the value of this education, you would invariably need on ground local / regional experience in the market you want to work - functions like HR, psychology, marketing / sales / customer service and even economics to some extent are like that. While I am certain the education you gain (in a college like the LSE) would be top notch, the job search will be challenging for you....

I would recommend preparing and appearing for the CAT / XAT again, and study HR / Psychology & Economics in a top notch PGDM program in India, join the HR Rotational program of a major corporate, gain local (Indian) experience, career progress and seniority, then aim for a foreign posting to widen your avenues. HR Careers invariably start local, then spread wider as the person acquires experience, knowledge (meaning business) of the company / industry and a level of seniority, expertise & skill to enable and influence major business decisions.

Be patient... and as advised to many other posters, take a long term view, and NOT one of escape or desperation.

All the best.
Cheerz
Baccardisprite
Thankyou for all that supercool information! :cheerio: Well, and I have a few questions, I have completed my B.Sc. in biotech and bioinformatics(first class; '09) and would like to proceed my studies in business.

1.would it be an MSM or MBA that you'd recommend for me?

2. Is it the MSM from a reputed institute or an MBA from an average B school that is better?
(I have a choice of an MBA from James cook university)

3. Is it Europe or singapore universities (not the top B schools)that has a better exposure for freshers and preferable? (if not what other country??cost parameters matter)

4. or should I do masters in management and then after a few years of work, an MBA?

5.which offers more job openings for freshers,better as a career starter,preferred by employers and pays better? (MBA or MSM)

6.specialization in MBA is better?

If it is masters it would be International business, marketing, human resource or entrepreneurship.

If it is MBA it would be general MBA.

is there anything else you would recommend for me?
if you could help with this you have no idea what a breakthrough you'd have made!:biggrin:
coz I came up with these questions EVENTUALLY, VERY EVENTUALLY
HELP!!!!

P.S.my math skills are not very interesting.

:cheers:


All nice questions, but apart from a generic statement about "proceeding for studies in business" I am missing what you specifically want to do with your career. Come back and post with that information, and my answers to the above will assuredly be more valuable to you....

- What (functionally) would you like to do (long term)?
- What industry / type of company would you like to work for (long term)?
- (perhaps less important at your age), where (geography) would you like to work?

The above aside.....You have completed specialist university education in probably the hottest industry group for the next 10-15 years (Healthcare & Life Sciences), what makes you want to go for an MBA / MSM or anything else without acquiring some experience, progress and transferable skills in the field of Biotech????

Unless you have more compelling rationale that what you have provided in your post, I would suggest working for 4-5 years, maximizing your first education, acquiring transferable & applicable skills (foreign languages etc..), then go for the program consistent with yoru long-term goals, MBA or other ... so that answers only your Q4 (deliberate).

Why even "think" that a no name like James Cook U is an option / choice?

Take your bike, go for a long ride, sit somewhere and ponder your future, answer for yourself the open questions I have asked you, then post again (if you want) and I'll advise you.

Take care and good luck.

Hi Baccardisprite, great initiative. Here are some doubts of my own :

I'm currently in my final year of engineering and I am really interested in going into the Marketing line. I've done quite a bit of internet marketing as well and have experience developing websites.

Now, I've appeared for the MBA entrances here and I think I may get a couple of calls. However, first of all I'm not really sure whether getting an MBA without any work ex. is worthwhile.

Secondly, I'm scared by the thought of having to go through the experience of my engineering again if the courses turn out to be theoretical and the pedagogy boring and uninspiring.

The ideal situation for me would be to get into a good Marketing focused course such as the one offered by MICA, and I'm resting a lot of my hopes on it.

However, in the case that MICA doesn't work out - I'm keeping my backup options as either getting a job here or going for an Msc. Management degree from the UK.

Now, what I wanted to ask you specifically is - would you recommend getting an Msc Management degree from UK's mid-tier universities (Leeds/Exeter/Southampton etc.) ?

If I did end up going for such a course then I do plan to get my MBA after working for say 3-4 years. Do you think that would be a good course to follow ?

Look forward to hearing from you!

Hi Baccardisprite, great initiative. Here are some doubts of my own:

I'm currently in my final year of engineering and I am really interested in going into the Marketing line. I've done quite a bit of internet marketing as well and have experience developing websites.

Now, I've appeared for the MBA entrances here and I think I may get a couple of calls. However, first of all I'm not really sure whether getting an MBA without any work ex. is worthwhile. Secondly, I'm scared by the thought of having to go through the experience of my engineering again if the courses turn out to be theoretical and the pedagogy boring and uninspiring.

The ideal situation for me would be to get into a good Marketing focused course such as the one offered by MICA, and I'm resting a lot of my hopes on it. However, in the case that MICA doesn't work out - I'm keeping my backup options as either getting a job here or going for an Msc. Management degree from the UK.

Now, what I wanted to ask you specifically is - would you recommend getting an Msc Management degree from UK's mid-tier universities (Leeds/Exeter/Southampton etc.) ?

If I did end up going for such a course then I do plan to get my MBA after working for say 3-4 years. Do you think that would be a good course to follow ?

Look forward to hearing from you!


Firstly - it's good that you want to do marketing, clearly a calling you enjoy given the internet marketing and websites et al....

I recommend below (rationale follows thereafter):

1. Prepare diligently for and attempt the CAT / XAT in Dec 2010 and try getting into IIM / XL / FMS / JB in 2011 (unless you manage to enter one of these in 2010 itself), and concentrate on getting into a Sales / Marketing rotational / management program of a Consumer Durable / FMCG / Automotive or similar company. You will get a good head start to your career - as there're few better training grounds in marketing than a P&G;, UL, J&J;, Tata, or Philips etc.. What you will learn in class at one of these schools (at the age of 21-23) is likely to be as theoretical as your engineering courses were in college, but at a young age, they offer the best (read - most lucrative) dooways to enter the marketing field early.

P.S - MICA is an advertizing and marketing communications focused school, both of these are different from marketing & selling in itself. Not a bad school, but be very clear about what's on offer there versus what you want for your career.

2. Concentrate all your placement efforts on getting a marketing / sales job when you graduate 6 months from now, EVEN if it means door to door selling at a (comparably) lower salary than your friends who go into IT will get. Automotive, some smaller FMCG or durable companies, retail (whatever kind, including consumer finance) recruit management trainees at graduate level every year. Work on this job, either till you manage the place in a top school above or (if you enjoy it) then continue doing it for 4-5 years then do a top school (India or abroad) MBA. Whether in this job or in one of the majors mentioned above - any marketing job that makes you sweat the hard yards and get kicked by a client / customer will train you well for a career in marketing.

Whatever path you take from the above, ensure to learn a foreign language consistent with your long term career goals with regard to company / industry and geopraphy. Example - if you work in Automotive, learn German &/or Japanese. If in Fashion / Luxury goods - then French. If in Life Sciences / Pharma or the like - German would help... Chinese always helps....

A marketing career requires a charismatic persona, extrovert attitude, social interaction skills (not necessarily the same as people management) and most importantly, a very thick skin. When marketing becomes heavily client interactive, cultural knowledge & immersion becomes the MOST important "skill" to have, in addition to charismatic persona, extrovert attitude, social interaction skills and most importantly, a very thick skin....

IF you go to an M.Sc in Management in the UK seeking a marketing job, who is likely to welcome you into employment? You may speak English, but any employer you seek out for a marketing job will question your (lack of) on ground UK experience (living &/or working)... simply not worth it at your age.

Use the first few years (believe me, the best years) of your professional life to build real, applicable and transferable skills in marketing and NOT a bank of management degrees.

Hope that helps you... Good luck.

Wow, thank you so much for replying. You really have opened my eyes (no pun intended).

Just for the record, I do have an offer as a sales engineer at a web hosting startup in Hyd. The starting salary is indeed a bit low (low base salary+high incentives) but I think I might just take that offer up.

Thanks again for the sound advice.

Regards,
PixelDawn.