International educational options beyond the MBA

g_nikhil7 Says
hi, this is a very informative thread .... i wanted to ask you about a section where you wrote about freshers just out of college not sure about what they want to do in life .... well, i am one of them and would be grateful if u could help me out. i am currently in my final year doing my bachelors in business (3 yr course) ... In the long run around 4-5 yrs from now i am looking forward to become an entrepreneur and setting up my own business probably a manufacturing concern or somethin (not yet decided). i wanted to go for MBA in finance in a top university abroad and then work for 1-2 years to gain industry exposure. But as far as i have heard one needs atleast 2-3 yrs of work experience to apply for an MBA abroad. Please tell me if there are any good universities accepting freshers with good scores for an MBA? if i get a very good score in GMAT, is there any chance of getting into a good b-school? i have often heard that nothing can replace an MBA .... but i dont think it is true... What are the other alternative courses i could opt for considering my future goals. (maybe in finance field , manufacturing)? and what are the job prospects after finishing the course? further more i have heard that US is the best for further education esp for MBA or finance... please advice which countries should i target ?


- If you're thinking about an MBA straight out of college, give the CAT, and do it in India.

- If you want to go for an MBA abroad, but right out of college - you will NOT get into a top or reknowned program even with a good GMAT; because the MBA is by global concept post-experience education that turns technocrats into business managers / leaders! That concept has been twisted in India, which is an entirely different discussion. All I know is, it doesn't work outside India!

- The "nothing-can-replace-an-MBA" is just ****! I have an MBA, yet know a lot of smart(er) and successful colleagues / friends who don't. Always remember that education doesn't make you a better professional, it merely helps you upskill towards becoming a better one - a tool for a job, a means to an end!!!

- If you want to become an entrepreneur in the field of manufacturing, you need (over the next 5-6 years) experience and education towards that end. Since this is manufacturing - try getting a job (no matter the pay) in a small to medium, but entrepreneur owned manufacturing company!! Use your parent's / family connections if these are available / possible.

- Work for 4-5 years, learn the ropes - while educating yourself in finance through a distance learning M.Sc in Finance or ACMA or ICWA or similar. After 5 years - go for a proper and true-blue top MBA. Then work in a corporate environment for 3-4 years and then look to start your own business. You can actually use this period to judge whether entrepreneurship is really something you have passion for.

- Unless you're tremendously rich or tremendously lucky - you'll need about 8-10 years of hard work before being professionally, and financially capable of starting your own business.

Good luck

This is a really awesome thread baccardisprite.
I would like to know more about the distance Education MBAs offered by the british universities like the 1s mentioned by u. I would like to know whether it gives good ROI..Also do they provide placement facilities....And are there any loan facilities available.

Also which 1 of these programmes is rated the highest?

Hi baccardisprite
Thanks for such nice and consolidated info...
I have two questions...
1. What is your take on programs such as Master of Engineering Management (MEM) being conducted in places such as Dartmouth and Duke University. These courses include a mix of core engineering and management courses (corporate finance, marketing, operations management etc). You can actually take courses from the respective B-Schools of the universities (Tuck, Fuqua etc).
I have 2 years of work-experience in semiconductors domain and I am planning to apply in these programs.
Don't you think they are more relevant than say the MS in ESD at MIT?

2. There are a few European B-Schools which offer Masters program in "Innovation management"/"Technology Management" (Manchester, Rotterdam, Grenoble). Do you think doing a degree program in technology management from a B-School would make sense? Or an engineering school would always be better?
Any comments you may want to share about such programs, their relevance, job prospects etc...

hey this is indeed one of the best threads which gives lot of information........ what if not MBA....

I am a MBA aspirant...... but want to explore options beyond regular MBA....
I have got 6 years of Work ex mostly in marketing... Post MBA from Amity Business school...... in International businesss.....

So thinking of doing MBA in Marketing from a good inst...., but still exploring options other than MBa....

Can you please throw some light on some courses which are for marketing profs... but not regular MBa....

Will look forward for reply....

This is a really awesome thread baccardisprite.
I would like to know more about the distance Education MBAs offered by the british universities like the 1s mentioned by u. I would like to know whether it gives good ROI..Also do they provide placement facilities....And are there any loan facilities available. Also which 1 of these programmes is rated the highest?


Distance Learning MBAs are those taken while on a given job, and therefore should not be measured on ROI. Precisely for this reason, the schools or uiversities offering these programs will not offer on-campus placement services. They don't do this for 2 reasons:

1. Distance learning is exactly what it is - an education gained while located outside or far away from the school's / university's main campus. It would be logistically impossible to offer the service + get a scaleable number of students to use it.

2. It costs money! The fees charged for an on-line / distance learning (with limited time on campus) program won't cover the costs of providing placement services, as these are typically much lower than the fees for a full-time program.

If you aren't working, a distance learning MBA shouldn't be considered unless you have any over-riding personal issues.

If you have a letter of admission and the aptitude to study, you should be able to get a loan. But with a cost of INR 10-14 spread over 2.5-3 years, you probably won't be too pressed for cash if you're working.

There's no published or established ranking of Distance Learning MBA programs, however British Universities are known to be the best at delivering distance education per say - in terms of:

- the rigor involved (subjects, exams and projects),
- the seriousness with which you need to approach the program to get the degree (these are genuine), which means you have to work hard to pass
- the technology used to deliver (books, CDs, virtual networks, electronic libraries, and the web 2.0 platforms on the internet).

I would suggest to look at any/ all of the below:

- Henley Business School (Brunel University), DL MBA
- Warwick Business School's Distance Learning MBA
- The London University External Program (Imperial College)
- Open University Business School
- Strathclyde GSB

Good luck

P.S to all - Internet, Web 2.0 and a greater inclination amongst people to simultaneously pursue careers and education (to enhance skills and build networks) has given the concept of distance learning a high degree of respectability. Provided you seek this education from the right university, you will find that it is just as academically challenging as the programs taken full-time.....
Hi baccardisprite, Thanks for such nice and consolidated info...I have two questions...
1. What is your take on programs such as Master of Engineering Management (MEM) being conducted in places such as Dartmouth and Duke University. These courses include a mix of core engineering and management courses (corporate finance, marketing, operations management etc). You can actually take courses from the respective B-Schools of the universities (Tuck, Fuqua etc). I have 2 years of work-experience in semiconductors domain and I am planning to apply in these programs. Don't you think they are more relevant than say the MS in ESD at MIT?

2. There are a few European B-Schools which offer Masters program in "Innovation management"/"Technology Management" (Manchester, Rotterdam, Grenoble). Do you think doing a degree program in technology management from a B-School would make sense? Or an engineering school would always be better? Any comments you may want to share about such programs, their relevance, job prospects etc...


1. Relevance is something you need to decide on. Be diligent with your research - first understand what you want to do (functionally), where you want to work (company / industry) and the geography you want to be in. Then talk to the adcomms of these programs and ask them to put you in touch with alumni and current students - find out whether the program has help them meet their own goals and objectives. Then decide whether the program is relevant for you.... Quasi-management / technical programs attract companies, just make sure they're the ones you want to work with, and (more importantly) if they will sponsor work permits !!

2. Avoid such programs..... They're just old wines in new bottles.

3. You might want to look at TU Delft in Holland. It's probably the MIT of mainland Europe, and offers some excellent and rigorous career oriented education in many engineering / management fields.

Good luck.
hey this is indeed one of the best threads which gives lot of information........ what if not MBA.... I am a MBA aspirant...... but want to explore options beyond regular MBA.... I have got 6 years of Work ex mostly in marketing... Post MBA from Amity Business school...... in International businesss..... So thinking of doing MBA in Marketing from a good inst...., but still exploring options other than MBa....
Can you please throw some light on some courses which are for marketing profs... but not regular MBa.... Will look forward for reply....


What do you want to do after a Master's education? Function, type of company or industry, what geography? Tell me that please - otherwise tough to give you valuable advice.

Hello baccardisprite, thanx for this brilliant thread...
I am an MBA aspirant and am appearing for CAT n MATthis year...
I am planning to do an MBA in Shipping & Logistics Management/ Logistics Management. U had had mentioned about this in one of ur first threads. Kindly enlighten me more on this field, as in the scope in India et al... and if possible kindly refer some good Institues in India which provide this course, you had mentioned some foreign universities, but I do not plan to go abroad. Also, I am not eligible to apply to those Universities too, as I have a BA in Economics! (From my google search I found AMET in Chennai- :: AMET University :: ;which has this course, any idea about this insitute?) Kindly help...
Keep up the good work, lotsa ppl need ur advice... :cheerio:
Cheers...

baccardisprite Says
What do you want to do after a Master's education? Function, type of company or industry, what geography? Tell me that please - otherwise tough to give you valuable advice.



hey thanks for the reply...., could not thanks earlier as i was not able to accesss this site.....

But i must say till today i dont know any option beyond MBA......, as for my back ground I did my MBA in international business from Amity delhi... for 4 years worked in exports...., thn last year I have changed tracks to retail industry... but somehow i feel that eve after 6 years of work ex I am unable to reach where i want to so just want to upgrade my self... I am looking for some good course in marketing as my career has been on marketing side like client servicing...,Now as a product manager.... so want some specialised degree related to marketing. want to pursue in europe or in usa or may in any other country where such courses are available...

If you could suggest something it will be of great help...
Thanks
Parul
Hello baccardisprite, thanx for this brilliant thread... I am an MBA aspirant and am appearing for CAT n MATthis year...
I am planning to do an MBA in Shipping & Logistics Management/ Logistics Management. U had had mentioned about this in one of ur first threads. Kindly enlighten me more on this field, as in the scope in India et al... and if possible kindly refer some good Institues in India which provide this course, you had mentioned some foreign universities, but I do not plan to go abroad. Also, I am not eligible to apply to those Universities too, as I have a BA in Economics! (From my google search I found AMET in Chennai- :: AMET University :: ;which has this course, any idea about this insitute?) Kindly help... Keep up the good work, lotsa ppl need ur advice... :cheerio: Cheers...


At the age of 21-22, shipping & logistics are not taught, they're learnt on the job. I would encourage you to start looking for a jon in this field with companies like Maersk India (who run a pretty successful Management Training program), or other shipping companies like CMA-CGM India, Mitsui OSK Lines, NOL etc... or Airline & Courier companies like DHL India. You will have to start small - earning probably INR 12-15K a month, but with ambition and professional / personal discipline, you will learn fast. 2-3 years and you'll be truly ready to take on a Master's in Logistics program.

Currently, I do not know of any good University based program in India for this particular field. Most if not all of the training is experiential and offered by various companies at various levels.

The AMET is a college to train sailors, and is not as prestigious as sailor training programs offered by MERI / Chanakya etc..
parul agrwawal Says
hey thanks for the reply...., could not thanks earlier as i was not able to accesss this site..... But i must say till today i dont know any option beyond MBA......, as for my back ground I did my MBA in international business from Amity delhi... for 4 years worked in exports...., thn last year I have changed tracks to retail industry... but somehow i feel that eve after 6 years of work ex I am unable to reach where i want to so just want to upgrade my self... I am looking for some good course in marketing as my career has been on marketing side like client servicing...,Now as a product manager.... so want some specialised degree related to marketing. want to pursue in europe or in usa or may in any other country where such courses are available... If you could suggest something it will be of great help... Thanks. Parul


Would suggest a top European MBA (with Marketing and strategy specific elective courses), targetting a career with big retail in Europe. Your experience, for those who want to strategically expand in emerging markets would be quite valuable. Learn a European language please, at least to conversational levels. French or Spanish will be particularly useful if you want to move to specialty retail.
baccardisprite Says
Would suggest a top European MBA (with Marketing and strategy specific elective courses), targetting a career with big retail in Europe. Your experience, for those who want to strategically expand in emerging markets would be quite valuable. Learn a European language please, at least to conversational levels. French or Spanish will be particularly useful if you want to move to specialty retail.

hey thanks a lot for your reponse.... but tell me one thing is there no course related to just marketing.... dont want just to specialise in retail....

Hi...

I am really impressed by the way this thread is moving on, quality questions being asked and the way its been answered.

Please say ur opinion on the following -
- I find many people doing CFA (from USA) & simultaneously going for their full time MBA. Is it really required (CFA+MBA) because these two courses are made for different kind of job profiles (my understanding).

Hello

I am a final year student pursuing B.Com (H) with finance as the elective.

I am looking forward to:
A) CAT 2009
B) Masters in Management in Europe (Fall 2010 session)

My acads are decent( 91% 10th, 95% 12th, 70% grad)
I hope to get a 730 plus in GMAT going by the CATs...
Strong ECA (Best Speaker at IIMA Confluence 2006, head of debating,social service & other stuff in college)

Now the question which I am facing is simple:

1) Are Masters in Management from HEC Paris & MBA from IIM at par. Because in terms of jobs they are equal & HEC has a greater international reputation. IIMs specially ABC are amazing but then is their brand outside India strong enough??

2) Masters is a course designed for people with limited work-ex while MBA is not. Thus even if I manage IIMs will it make sense to go?

I agree that getting into IIMs is crazily tough but that doesn't mean they are the right option in all situation.. Please comment..

Hi All,

I am a Mechanical Engg working in the IT field for past 3.5 years.I hav got a call from UQ australia for Masters of business program.Can u plz tell if this will be a gud choice.Also I am applying to Auckland Univ in NZ for Masters in International Business.
I would request you all to advise me on this.Any suggestions are welcome.
I would also like to know the job opportunities in AUS.I know its difficult to get a job there but still would like to get details.

Regards,
Raj

Hi

I am IT professional with work experience of 2 years. I want to know whether MBA would help me attain my goals of starting a firm in consumer electronics and engineering products. Is there any other program beyond MBA which would help me to reach it?

thanks and regards,
Murali

parul agrwawal Says
hey thanks a lot for your reponse.... but tell me one thing is there no course related to just marketing.... dont want just to specialise in retail....


There might be courses in marketing... but going through them, they look a bit fluffy to me... I would always suggest more quantitative programs for people. An MBA would for you be a more rounded experience.
Hi...

I am really impressed by the way this thread is moving on, quality questions being asked and the way its been answered.

Please say ur opinion on the following -
- I find many people doing CFA (from USA) & simultaneously going for their full time MBA. Is it really required (CFA+MBA) because these two courses are made for different kind of job profiles (my understanding).


On the buy-side of finance i.e functions like corporate investment management, asset management, equity research (like fidelity), mutual funds, hedge funds and private equity - many MBAs are taking on and completing CFAs as well. Investment Management is the technical side of finance and sometimes requires people to come in with some qualification attesting to their competence.

Yup a CFA is getting more popular with MBAs and vice-versa. The CFA is a financial qualification, while the MBA is a more well rounded business related qualification. Both complement each other quite well. Of course, its all about circumstance, career direction, and timing.
Hello

I am a final year student pursuing B.Com (H) with finance as the elective.

I am looking forward to:
A) CAT 2009
B) Masters in Management in Europe (Fall 2010 session)

My acads are decent( 91% 10th, 95% 12th, 70% grad)
I hope to get a 730 plus in GMAT going by the CATs...
Strong ECA (Best Speaker at IIMA Confluence 2006, head of debating,social service & other stuff in college)

Now the question which I am facing is simple:

1) Are Masters in Management from HEC Paris & MBA from IIM at par. Because in terms of jobs they are equal & HEC has a greater international reputation. IIMs specially ABC are amazing but then is their brand outside India strong enough??

2) Masters is a course designed for people with limited work-ex while MBA is not. Thus even if I manage IIMs will it make sense to go?

I agree that getting into IIMs is crazily tough but that doesn't mean they are the right option in all situation.. Please comment..


Just answered your PM.
Cheerz and good luck
Hi All,
I am a Mechanical Engg working in the IT field for past 3.5 years.I hav got a call from UQ australia for Masters of business program.Can u plz tell if this will be a gud choice.Also I am applying to Auckland Univ in NZ for Masters in International Business. I would request you all to advise me on this.Any suggestions are welcome. I would also like to know the job opportunities in AUS.I know its difficult to get a job there but still would like to get details.
Regards, Raj


My apologies - I have no idea of these schools. Employment opportunities are tied to the success of achieving a permanent residency in Australia. The country has taken a hit from the Global Financial & Economic Crisis right now, and the job market is consequently soft. Apart from this broadline view, I have no idea of the specifics of Australias job market.

Best of luck