International educational options beyond the MBA

ArtfulStriver Says
Thanks Bacardisprite, a few things became clear with your reply and the article you had posted regarding the scenario in UK helped as well. I would tell you a bit more about yourself to plan ahead better. Have done my MBA in marketing from IBS, Hyderabad (ICFAI, Campus based, 2 years regular, full time), landed up with a job in insurance sales, switched to media research after a few months as I have been interested in media always and am still continuing here in client servicing. Wanted to go for a one year program to take a big leap forward in my career in terms of profile, package. U did suggest about a few courses and talked about the other key factors as well. Am ruling out any such courses in the US/UK because of the experience factor as you said and am also not sure how effective they will be in getting me a better job in India. Was looking out for such courses in Asia as well because of the cost factor,the economy being better at this moment and also because degrees from Asian universities are supposedly better recognized back home in India; but didn't find programs in communications management specifically which were as highly recommended as the programs you had mentioned. I am not thinking about a similar course in India because I already have an MBA and am in my late twenties. Should I just continue with my work patiently and gain further experience or is there any way for me to rise up the ladder quickly? Or should I take up a better general management program again and then look to get into the communications management field. I was basically eager to take a last shot at quality education (preferably international). I have had average acads and not much of extra curricular stuff.


How many years of experience do you have in Media Research (asking because you mentioned you're in your late 20's) ? Can you describe your job a little more specifically? Have you attempted the GMAT? I wonder if you're selling yourself short a bit.

Let us know.

Guys,

our team has made a video on MBA experience. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V26F0ztg0xg

Hope you'll enjoy watching it. Love it, like it!

cheers!

How many years of experience do you have in Media Research (asking because you mentioned you're in your late 20's) ? Can you describe your job a little more specifically? Have you attempted the GMAT? I wonder if you're selling yourself short a bit.

Let us know.

Hi Baccardisprite,

Am in Media Research for the past 7 months now, completed my MBA last year and went into sales straight out of college, switched after a few months and came in here. Will be 27 in a month. My firm's into television viewership measurement, a recognized name in the industry, and I am into servicing broadcasters who are our clients. Although have learned a lot over the last 7 months and would continue to do so, I personally am interested to specialize in communications management in terms of education and take a leap forward in terms of profile and package and not just restrict myself to the quantitative aspects of media research and planning. Lemme know what else you would like to know. Thanks for your inputs. Wanted to have a realistic plan ahead for myself and go with it. I have not taken the GMAT yet, will be plunging into focussed studies after all my plans are in place and I know what I need to do.

hi baccardisprite, thanks a lot for your detailed advise. I just took GMAT and scored 710 (Q49, V36, AWA - yet to get). I am planning to do my MBA (1 yr) from India only. However still wondering if I will be able to make it to IIM A/B/C. Could you please advise if it would be good to apply for SP Jain/XLRI as well, their class profile so far ranges from 5-8 yrs, so I am wondering if either these would be a good choice for me, considering my 10+ years exp in IT. Any views on other IIMs (L/I)?

Thanks in advance.

Going by your profile and what you seek - career acceleration seems to be what you're looking for. Most of the people in the IIM PGPX Programs are people with profiles similar to yours. Based on what I've seen in the PGPX programs, they seem to offer 2 things:

*commercial / business focused education to technically / functionally sound professionals with 7+ years experience in any field (though each PGPX class seems to have a profusion of those in the IT field, this will change as classes grow more diverse in the years to come).

*A cost-effective yet professionally sound pathway for experienced people to access a career in India or (where possible) abroad.

Programs abroad similar in class to the IIM PGPX are:
*IMD's 1 year MBA
*Sloan Masters M.Sc in London Business School
*Sloan Masters in MIT's Sloan School of Management
*INSEAD's 1 year MBA
*Queen's School of Business, Canada
*Ivey School of Business, Canada
*Cambridge / Oxford MBAs, UK

These are the world's best-known 1 year management programs where (barring Queens & Ivey), you would find prospective classmates with experience profiles similar to yours.

The EU job market is certainly not as buoyant as it was 3-5 years ago, but if you have the skills applicable / transferable & valuable to potential employers, and convince them that you're a worthy hire, they will go to every length possible to employ you. You've got have your career goals pretty clear though, be prepared to network furiously, and train yourself for a comprehensive job-search off-campus as you would for companies coming on-campus. I say off-campus because you're too old to get into a management rotational program that a lot of companies come to campus for. So you would need to (off or on-campus) target real jobs requiring skilled people who will contribute from Days 1/2.

You'll need a top school for this for 2 reasons: (1) a strong, widely spread alumni network in the field you want to access (IT / Technology / Operations Consulting), with which you can network and (2) a strong career services team that will have the street-credibility to attract alumni + corporates to present / recruit on campus and train you well enough to put your best foot forward off-campus. Over 50% of the so-called dream jobs that MBAs find (outside of consulting, banking & rotational programs) are through off-campus job-searches.

Hope that helps you with your thought process.
All the best
Baccardisprite

Can anyone provide me with information about Colleges for masters in advertising, pr and communications outside India ?

Hi Baccardisprite,

Am in Media Research for the past 7 months now, completed my MBA last year and went into sales straight out of college, switched after a few months and came in here. Will be 27 in a month. My firm's into television viewership measurement, a recognized name in the industry, and I am into servicing broadcasters who are our clients. Although have learned a lot over the last 7 months and would continue to do so, I personally am interested to specialize in communications management in terms of education and take a leap forward in terms of profile and package and not just restrict myself to the quantitative aspects of media research and planning. Lemme know what else you would like to know. Thanks for your inputs. Wanted to have a realistic plan ahead for myself and go with it. I have not taken the GMAT yet, will be plunging into focussed studies after all my plans are in place and I know what I need to do.


Stay patient, do this for least 2 years longer then think of an education. 7 months in such an experiential field is unlikely to be perceived of any value to any future employer, even if you get a top notch degree for it. Work for a few years to gain a bag of skills that are applicable & transferable, then think of further education to enable the jump upwards & outside India.

Plan for an entry 2013-2014, so take your GMAT in the summer of 2012.

All the best
Baccardisprite
MBAAspirant1980 Says
hi baccardisprite, thanks a lot for your detailed advise. I just took GMAT and scored 710 (Q49, V36, AWA - yet to get). I am planning to do my MBA (1 yr) from India only. However still wondering if I will be able to make it to IIM A/B/C. Could you please advise if it would be good to apply for SP Jain/XLRI as well, their class profile so far ranges from 5-8 yrs, so I am wondering if either these would be a good choice for me, considering my 10+ years exp in IT. Any views on other IIMs (L/I)? Thanks in advance.


IIMs A/B/C, XL and SPJ run pretty credible 1 year PGPs for experienced people, and I don't see any reason why you shouldn't apply to all of these. Why not ISB? Note that the ISB/IIMA PGPX is the best known of the lot, they were the first in the game. GMAT score looks within range.

All the best
Baccardisprite

Thanks baccardisprite, yes I am applying to the all you mentioned- ISB/IIM A,B,C, XLRI and SPJ 😃

Sorry for spamming, but I would like to thank everyone for making this thread so intercative,s I learned a lot from it....

hey

I would like some information about pursuing an MS in Finance. especially about, what are you job opportunities after doing this course, and if it is comparable to someone who does an MBA with finance specialization.

also, what are the top universities in USA for pursuing this course, and is a gre score sufficient for it?

Dear Baccardisprite

I've tried to go through all of your previous replies (from the time the thread started in 2008 ) so as to make a correct balance between being a optimist and a realist

My background -
B.E. I.T. with higher second class. Working in the domain of e-learning and eGovernance in a PSU for the past 2 years as a Systems Engineer (Server Administrator) with lots of client interaction. Decent ECs.

I'm planning to apply for Fall 2013 since my present financial commitments will not allow me to go for Fall 2012. So, I will have around 44 months of work experience by then. I want to shift towards a management oriented role (certainly not the first amongst the IT crowd) and want to pursue a degree in Canada for the same. I don't want to go to US or UK after hearing lots of horror stories.

But like you said earlier, and I totally agree, that getting into jobs like Marketing, where lot of client interaction is required is difficult since we don't have local job experience there. You also recommended to get into a vertical such as Finance, Operations etc which will be more suited right now and then try to switch verticals (if our interests lie there) once we have local work experience.

So my master plan, pardon the pun, is to go in for a masters degree (something like Finance Master Program in Vancouver - Master of Financial Risk Management (MFRM) - Beedie School of Business, SFU, Canada) which will be more focused (and easy on the pocket) into a domain such as finance, operations etc. Get local work experience, save money and apply for a top MBA after 2-3 years. My main interest here is that prospective employers should find me worth their money after my MBA so that I get a good job and hence a good ROI.

Does the plan sound any good? Should I go in for some other certification like CFA before I apply? I am quite clueless in this regard.

Waiting eagerly for your advice! :)

PS: Sorry for the extremely long post.

hey

I would like some information about pursuing an MS in Finance. especially about, what are you job opportunities after doing this course, and if it is comparable to someone who does an MBA with finance specialization.

also, what are the top universities in USA for pursuing this course, and is a gre score sufficient for it?


If you read this thread, specifically between posts 860 & 890, there's a lot of discussion between some posters and myself - where M.Sc's in Finance, and the career opportunities thereafter are articulated in some detail.

Please read those and if you still have specific queries, come back and post here.

All the best
Baccardisprite

I am a recent graduate in B.Tech chemical engineering from a top ranked NIT and have recently joined an FMCG multinational as a supply chain trainee. It took a month for me to realize that I do not enjoy factory work; the career path in this company typically expects a fresher to spend four years(including one year of training) in a factory before moving to front end supply chain functions like demand planning, forecasting etc.

I have always had an interest in advertising and brand management. Well, I think I will be good at it. Have no experience in it to talk of, but I am pretty creative and have good communication skills(Good at chaatna per se). So, I am presuming I will be.

I gave CAT, XAT and MICAT in my final year. Missed the mark narrowly in all. I don't think I want to give another try for indian MBA exams. Saps up all your energy. I am writing my GMAT this august. Expecting a good score, or so the mocks do suggest.

I would want some guidance. Which of the following options look credible and should be advised, in context of my general future career ambitions?

1) Stick to the job and apply for MBA few years later

Pros: The growth is great, the brand of the company is so strong that after 4 years of work ex people get admits into Harvard, Kellogs and Wharton commonly.
Cons: Simply coz I hate the work I have to do.


2) Apply for MSc Management. I have zeroed down on a few colleges like LBS, LSE, HEC Paris, EM Lyon, ESCP etc.

Pros: Immediately after the degree, I should be able to work in fields I like. I can succesfully work my career to a stage where I am ready for an exe MBA or a higher degree, whatever the circumstances govern.
Cons: I somehow find these courses little shady. What about the job scenario, especially for a non local student. I am in fact worried whether doing an MSc management will put me one step behind where I was before the course.


3) Shift to a KPO/consultancy. Got contacts in a few like Copal Partners, ZS, Evalueserve etc. Can work on these companies and shift.

Pros: Even though I don't get to work in marketing, I atleast work in relevant fields. Atleast it is not a factory job! I can wake up in the mornings and go to my job, happy...
Cons: Leaving a great company. Probably a lower pay. The current company will help the CV stand out to a certain degree when applying for an MBA; its one of India's biggest CEO factories. Not sure of that after shifting.

Kindly advice. I really feel like I am on crossroads..Also I want to know the ground reality of the MSc Management programs in the good schools(the ones I mentioned). The colorful course brochures leave much to skepticism.

I feel if you could get into consultancy like ZS, Accenture etc. and then try for an international MBA it will be great for your profile.

I am a recent graduate in B.Tech chemical engineering from a top ranked NIT and have recently joined an FMCG multinational as a supply chain trainee. It took a month for me to realize that I do not enjoy factory work; the career path in this company typically expects a fresher to spend four years(including one year of training) in a factory before moving to front end supply chain functions like demand planning, forecasting etc.

I have always had an interest in advertising and brand management. Well, I think I will be good at it. Have no experience in it to talk of, but I am pretty creative and have good communication skills(Good at chaatna per se). So, I am presuming I will be.

I gave CAT, XAT and MICAT in my final year. Missed the mark narrowly in all. I don't think I want to give another try for indian MBA exams. Saps up all your energy. I am writing my GMAT this august. Expecting a good score, or so the mocks do suggest.

I would want some guidance. Which of the following options look credible and should be advised, in context of my general future career ambitions?

1) Stick to the job and apply for MBA few years later

Pros: The growth is great, the brand of the company is so strong that after 4 years of work ex people get admits into Harvard, Kellogs and Wharton commonly.
Cons: Simply coz I hate the work I have to do.


2) Apply for MSc Management. I have zeroed down on a few colleges like LBS, LSE, HEC Paris, EM Lyon, ESCP etc.

Pros: Immediately after the degree, I should be able to work in fields I like. I can succesfully work my career to a stage where I am ready for an exe MBA or a higher degree, whatever the circumstances govern.
Cons: I somehow find these courses little shady. What about the job scenario, especially for a non local student. I am in fact worried whether doing an MSc management will put me one step behind where I was before the course.


3) Shift to a KPO/consultancy. Got contacts in a few like Copal Partners, ZS, Evalueserve etc. Can work on these companies and shift.

Pros: Even though I don't get to work in marketing, I atleast work in relevant fields. Atleast it is not a factory job! I can wake up in the mornings and go to my job, happy...
Cons: Leaving a great company. Probably a lower pay. The current company will help the CV stand out to a certain degree when applying for an MBA; its one of India's biggest CEO factories. Not sure of that after shifting.

Kindly advice. I really feel like I am on crossroads..Also I want to know the ground reality of the MSc Management programs in the good schools(the ones I mentioned). The colorful course brochures leave much to skepticism.

My opinion on your options:
1. As you said the brand is great and would help you get into the premier colleges.
pros: - Always a very good choice as the brand of your MBA will stay with you for a long time, though it does dilute a high amount in the first one year.
- You can always make a career switch focusing on the industry you already worked with.
Cons: - it is always difficult if you want to change both industry and function, you might have to start a step back - esp. considering the loans you would incur with studying at the institutes you mention - probably you would be forced to rethink.

2. These courses are not shady cause you mentioned some respectable institutes. They would help you make a switch much earlier in your career and it wouldnt hurt you much to start afresh. With 4-5 years work ex i'm sure you wouldnt want to start again at the bottom of the chain.

3. No sure. from my personal experience - the brand i work for helped me a lot in my MBA apps.

A word of advice - at some point you need to make a decision - and then take things as they come. I know its easier said than done ( i felt the same when people told me this ).

Hey guys..found a very informative site for international MBA

GenieTalks- Your Questions Answered! Its all about your Education & Career!

Dear Baccardisprite

I've tried to go through all of your previous replies (from the time the thread started in 2008 ) so as to make a correct balance between being a optimist and a realist

My background -
B.E. I.T. with higher second class. Working in the domain of e-learning and eGovernance in a PSU for the past 2 years as a Systems Engineer (Server Administrator) with lots of client interaction. Decent ECs.

I'm planning to apply for Fall 2013 since my present financial commitments will not allow me to go for Fall 2012. So, I will have around 44 months of work experience by then. I want to shift towards a management oriented role (certainly not the first amongst the IT crowd) and want to pursue a degree in Canada for the same. I don't want to go to US or UK after hearing lots of horror stories.

But like you said earlier, and I totally agree, that getting into jobs like Marketing, where lot of client interaction is required is difficult since we don't have local job experience there. You also recommended to get into a vertical such as Finance, Operations etc which will be more suited right now and then try to switch verticals (if our interests lie there) once we have local work experience.

So my master plan, pardon the pun, is to go in for a masters degree (something like Finance Master Program in Vancouver - Master of Financial Risk Management (MFRM) - Beedie School of Business, SFU, Canada) which will be more focused (and easy on the pocket) into a domain such as finance, operations etc. Get local work experience, save money and apply for a top MBA after 2-3 years. My main interest here is that prospective employers should find me worth their money after my MBA so that I get a good job and hence a good ROI.

Does the plan sound any good? Should I go in for some other certification like CFA before I apply? I am quite clueless in this regard.

Waiting eagerly for your advice! :)

PS: Sorry for the extremely long post.


First - are you interested in Finance? If yes, then make sure you signal that to the business schools you apply to and future employers (anywhere) through either experience or targeted professional education - that you're serious about a career in Finance. Since you're not in a finance career now, I'd recommend passing at least 2 levels of the CFA before you go to school, and working hard on the GMAT and try scoring 720+ (banks would want to see something that reflects your academic & numerate ability).

SFU is a 2/3rd tier university in Canada. Even with a work-permit policy that's friendlier to Internationals than that in the UK/US, what makes you think going to a 2/3rd tier university in Canada makes it any good there versus 2/3rd universities in the UK/US for those markets?

I have always recommended in more than one post to go to the best university you can in the geography you try to access. Therefore, if this is Canada, then you're way better off going to Rotman, Ivey, Queens or Schulich for your MBA. These are the Top Canadian schools and seeing what little you've posted about your profile, you'd be at least competitive for those schools (if you got a 700+ GMAT + top notch recommendations & write good essays). Why SFU?

You'd have the same money issues later as well? You'd be paying off a lotz of debt for a Masters in Finance you really don't need. Nearly 4 years of experience is actually at the low end, but you'd get a look in at the schools MBA programs if you had all the criteria I described above.

Think it over and post again
Baccardisprite
I am a recent graduate in B.Tech chemical engineering from a top ranked NIT and have recently joined an FMCG multinational as a supply chain trainee. It took a month for me to realize that I do not enjoy factory work; the career path in this company typically expects a fresher to spend four years(including one year of training) in a factory before moving to front end supply chain functions like demand planning, forecasting etc.

I have always had an interest in advertising and brand management. Well, I think I will be good at it. Have no experience in it to talk of, but I am pretty creative and have good communication skills(Good at chaatna per se). So, I am presuming I will be.

I gave CAT, XAT and MICAT in my final year. Missed the mark narrowly in all. I don't think I want to give another try for indian MBA exams. Saps up all your energy. I am writing my GMAT this august. Expecting a good score, or so the mocks do suggest.

I would want some guidance. Which of the following options look credible and should be advised, in context of my general future career ambitions?

1) Stick to the job and apply for MBA few years later

Pros: The growth is great, the brand of the company is so strong that after 4 years of work ex people get admits into Harvard, Kellogs and Wharton commonly.
Cons: Simply coz I hate the work I have to do.


2) Apply for MSc Management. I have zeroed down on a few colleges like LBS, LSE, HEC Paris, EM Lyon, ESCP etc.

Pros: Immediately after the degree, I should be able to work in fields I like. I can succesfully work my career to a stage where I am ready for an exe MBA or a higher degree, whatever the circumstances govern.
Cons: I somehow find these courses little shady. What about the job scenario, especially for a non local student. I am in fact worried whether doing an MSc management will put me one step behind where I was before the course.


3) Shift to a KPO/consultancy. Got contacts in a few like Copal Partners, ZS, Evalueserve etc. Can work on these companies and shift.

Pros: Even though I don't get to work in marketing, I atleast work in relevant fields. Atleast it is not a factory job! I can wake up in the mornings and go to my job, happy...
Cons: Leaving a great company. Probably a lower pay. The current company will help the CV stand out to a certain degree when applying for an MBA; its one of India's biggest CEO factories. Not sure of that after shifting.

Kindly advice. I really feel like I am on crossroads..Also I want to know the ground reality of the MSc Management programs in the good schools(the ones I mentioned). The colorful course brochures leave much to skepticism.


Not to critique you, but didn't you know that they'd send you to a factory before you actually signed up with them? Can you tell us why you don't like factory work? Is it the physical work? 4 years isn't a particularly long time. Manufacturing + SC experience in a large FMCG company is more than just the brand. SC specialists & managers from FMCG are in huge demand from many industries (including consulting, perhaps excluding banking) simply because of their ability to manage complexity (you'll hear that a lot where you work :-))....

This is the heart of a product & manufacturing company's operation (supply chain being the veins & arteries :-))! As someone who went through the operations bit for 6 years in my pre-MBA career (lessons I use to this day), I can tell you that you will be a much better marketer if you know the value chain (i.e the truth) of what you're selling to your customer / consumer!

Send me a PM if you want, I just think you're frittering a major opportunity here to gain some serious & tangible skill and yes, position yourself for a great career enabled by an MBA in a top school....

To answer your questions:

1. Gain the experience!
2. Waste of time, considering what you have.
3. I don't see why/how the shift to "marketing" is easier from the places you describe.

Think, then post/PM.
All the best
Baccardisprite

Hi Baccardisprite,

You are doing a great help for everyone. Thanks a lot for you effort :-P

I'm a B.Sc(Electronics) graduate with 5 years of experience in IT (SAP Business Intelligence). Acads not very good 😞 (10th - 86%; 12th - 58%; B.Sc - 65%)

Planning to write GMAT in Aug-Sept and apply to European/Asian B-Schools.

I was told that most of the schools in US ask for a 4 years degree. Is this correct? Are there any programs in US which consider a 3 years degree?
I hope in Europe, they accept a 3 year degree as well.
Please throw some light on this.

Kindly suggest some good MBA/Masters/M.Sc program in Europe/Asia suitable for my education and work experience.

Thanks in advance :-P
Walker

hey

so i've been following this post for the last year or so, and asked many doubts for myself and on behalf of friends/relatives etc, and received good replies for the same, because this thread is really good and some great advice gets going around here.

i graduated in a mech engineering degree from a top college in south india, and now currently working in one of the big-4 consulting firms in their consulting practice. my job involves working on strategy, IT audits, vendor assessments etc (basically core consulting, but in IT sphere).


my interest lies in Finance . stuff like investment banking, hedge funds, M&As; etc. but at the same time, i love the work culture in my current firm and the general work i do in consulting, though i am restricted to IT sphere.


i wish to study further either in a year or two. i am focusing on an MS in Finance from a top UK university . intend to write gmat soon, and start applying. i have decent grades in undergrad level.

i am hoping to complete my MS in Fin, and then maybe get back into my firm, but in the M&A; team, or maybe get into any good investment bank etc. my company also follows a decent system where its easy for a former employee to apply again after getting more education and have good changes of getting an interview call.

the question lies with whether its worth doing the MS in Finance, or would it be worth pursuing an MBA in india from any of the top 10-20 colleges, and still maybe land up a good job in the field i'm looking at. another option i read up about is the CFA program. i have heard, though its hard and takes time/effort, its a worthy program to enlist for.

would that help me any way in my endeavour? looking forward to guidance and help here.