@braincrash
Why don't you want to work for a little while immediately on graduating a very solid Engg education? What do you intend doing after the MiM or ESSEC Program? What's the rationale? What are your career goals driving this push to go for an MiM, which is unlikely to teach you anything above a job (when still in your early 20's)?
As for GMAT - helps always to score 700+, since you're young, and have very little else (besides your internships & other stuff) to show for your 20 living years, you'll have to score an even higher GMAT.
The GMAT is a tie-breaker between 2 or more equally qualified candidates. It's not a comparison of intellectual ability, although some like to make it sound like that. It's merely an indicator of your ability to study a quantitative subject or the quantitative parts of a program. So stop comparing yourself to others, and just try scoring the best you can.
All the best
Baccardisprite
Why don't you want to work for a little while immediately on graduating a very solid Engg education? What do you intend doing after the MiM or ESSEC Program? What's the rationale? What are your career goals driving this push to go for an MiM, which is unlikely to teach you anything above a job (when still in your early 20's)?
As for GMAT - helps always to score 700+, since you're young, and have very little else (besides your internships & other stuff) to show for your 20 living years, you'll have to score an even higher GMAT.
The GMAT is a tie-breaker between 2 or more equally qualified candidates. It's not a comparison of intellectual ability, although some like to make it sound like that. It's merely an indicator of your ability to study a quantitative subject or the quantitative parts of a program. So stop comparing yourself to others, and just try scoring the best you can.
All the best
Baccardisprite
@Stpk
Can you please elaborate your views on "management"? What do you think it is? Seriously, what you ask for is just too broad.... I could write on for days. Clearly, you need more specific guidance, so answer these two questions for me please.
If not coding, what specifically interests you? "Management" is not enough!
Think and post again.
All the best
Baccardisprite
Can you please elaborate your views on "management"? What do you think it is? Seriously, what you ask for is just too broad.... I could write on for days. Clearly, you need more specific guidance, so answer these two questions for me please.
If not coding, what specifically interests you? "Management" is not enough!
Think and post again.
All the best
Baccardisprite
@Tej_D
Interesting profile. I would recommend an Architecture / Civil / Construction Engg + Business focused dual or combined program. I don't have the exact answers in terms of what school. But start like this:
Buy / download (for a fee) the US News & World Report Publication of "America's Best Graduate Schools". Search for the ones that rank the Engg schools (one with Masters & Ph.D programs) for Civil Engineering and Architecture. Amongst those schools / universities, choose the one that has also a strong (say US Top 30) Business School as well. Choose 3-4 schools amongst that list, and start researching their websites, look for programs that combine both Engg/Arch with Business, or at least offer you the opportunity to cross register for various courses / subjects. Then contact the schools and ..... you know the rest.
Within the next 6 months, prepare for and attempt the GMAT, and try scoring as high as you can (get professional help if needed).
All the best
Baccardisprite
Interesting profile. I would recommend an Architecture / Civil / Construction Engg + Business focused dual or combined program. I don't have the exact answers in terms of what school. But start like this:
Buy / download (for a fee) the US News & World Report Publication of "America's Best Graduate Schools". Search for the ones that rank the Engg schools (one with Masters & Ph.D programs) for Civil Engineering and Architecture. Amongst those schools / universities, choose the one that has also a strong (say US Top 30) Business School as well. Choose 3-4 schools amongst that list, and start researching their websites, look for programs that combine both Engg/Arch with Business, or at least offer you the opportunity to cross register for various courses / subjects. Then contact the schools and ..... you know the rest.
Within the next 6 months, prepare for and attempt the GMAT, and try scoring as high as you can (get professional help if needed).
All the best
Baccardisprite
@rahulmarwah
Tough choice to make, all 3 are very good schools, and if you do things right, you'd have a chance at consulting. if you're going to HEC, you'd need to be business fluent in French, for both Consulting and or Marketing / Business Dev roles. Doing things right = networking early, listening to and applying the training that the school's career services will provide, practising case interviews, and most importantly, being flexible with your locational requirements (including having to come back to India if need be for the right company).
In the case of Oxford / HEC, you would want access to the UK / EU Market. The UK market is and will continue to be a difficult job market for Non-EU MBA grads unless you bring something very special to the table, over & above (hopefully) business fluency in a major EU language (German / French). The EU isn't exactly doing well, so the consultants aren't hiring in much numbers.... All in all, you're competing on longer odds.
Marketing / Business Development is an even bigger challenge, because these are staff roles, easiest to either fire or NOT recruit for in a downturn, which is exactly what the EU & the UK are experiencing now.
The challenge with ISB is competition. More than half the class of (now over 700) will want to get into the big names. BUT if you're the absolute top of the class in terms of grades and hopefully you have a good GMAT (700+), you're probably in with a better shout than you would be in the UK/EU environment.
These are personal opinions!
All the best
Baccardisprite
Tough choice to make, all 3 are very good schools, and if you do things right, you'd have a chance at consulting. if you're going to HEC, you'd need to be business fluent in French, for both Consulting and or Marketing / Business Dev roles. Doing things right = networking early, listening to and applying the training that the school's career services will provide, practising case interviews, and most importantly, being flexible with your locational requirements (including having to come back to India if need be for the right company).
In the case of Oxford / HEC, you would want access to the UK / EU Market. The UK market is and will continue to be a difficult job market for Non-EU MBA grads unless you bring something very special to the table, over & above (hopefully) business fluency in a major EU language (German / French). The EU isn't exactly doing well, so the consultants aren't hiring in much numbers.... All in all, you're competing on longer odds.
Marketing / Business Development is an even bigger challenge, because these are staff roles, easiest to either fire or NOT recruit for in a downturn, which is exactly what the EU & the UK are experiencing now.
The challenge with ISB is competition. More than half the class of (now over 700) will want to get into the big names. BUT if you're the absolute top of the class in terms of grades and hopefully you have a good GMAT (700+), you're probably in with a better shout than you would be in the UK/EU environment.
These are personal opinions!
All the best
Baccardisprite
@rahulmarwah said:
Don't you have to be in the top 5% of the class in ISB/IIM ABC to even get a chance to interview at MBB?
I would go with Oxford if you have superior social skills (most Indians don't, at least compared to Westerners). Not really sure why you applied to HEC unless you're fluent in french.
Thanks @baccardisprite and ashmole2009.
@baccardisprite
hi baccardi,
thanks man been eagerly waiting for your reply
sorry for being so vague
to your question when i said management i am thinking on the lines of hr
but considering my zero experience in managerial roles
i thought of an engineering management hoping to get into software in a managerial role
coming to know that engineering management consists of technical subjects i am in a dilemma
right now i am thinking of US and Germany due to their post study work options
correct me if i'm wrong
please help me out in choosing a management course with GRE that suits my profile
Thanks a ton,
hoping to hear from you soon
Best Wishes
Teja
thanks man been eagerly waiting for your reply
sorry for being so vague
to your question when i said management i am thinking on the lines of hr
but considering my zero experience in managerial roles
i thought of an engineering management hoping to get into software in a managerial role
coming to know that engineering management consists of technical subjects i am in a dilemma
right now i am thinking of US and Germany due to their post study work options
correct me if i'm wrong
please help me out in choosing a management course with GRE that suits my profile
Thanks a ton,
hoping to hear from you soon
Best Wishes
Teja
@Stpk
Engineering Management (an MEM) involves both technical and management subjects (stuff like product engineering, manufacturing systems, supply chain, cost management & budgeting etc), and is a more appropriately career oriented degree (at your age, 22-24) than just a fluffy MBA or Masters in "Management". Provided the program falls under the US Government's STEM* guidelines (# and type of Engineering / Technical / Mathematical subjects or the nature of the degree), you can as a foreign graduate enjoy 29 months of internship & post graduation OPT (optional practical training) time in the US.
STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics.
29 months is a huge advantage! You can creditably argue that you have a US work permit for 25-26 months (2+ years), get into the rotational program of a US based MNC or a an MNC with large US presence, work there and be ready to move to pretty much any location internationally including India.
You will not have a similar access or advantage in the US from a pure Masters in Management degree, because of 2 reasons: 1) these programs don't fall under the US Gov's STEM guidelines, so graduates have only the standard 1 year OPT post graduation; 2) you don't have the experience to offer any employer the incentive to sponsor an H1B for you.
To work in Germany taking advantage of any post-study work option, you'll need to learn German up to a Business Fluent level i.e the ability to speak with, interact, negotiate with, present to and close deals using exclusively German.
What makes you so afraid of technical subjects?
Don't get too taken in by people who go into business school (even the IIMs) and come out in "management" roles. They're all performing a "functional" out of graduation, and will grow into their career in such functional roles (e.g marketing, supply planning, finance, procurement etc..), as they grow more experienced & skilled, they will get to "manage" a group of people performing one function, then groups who manage more than one function, then a large business unit, then a company!!! It takes 15-25 years, depending on industry to get to the true "management" levels... Everyone starts small, unless they're Kumar Birla.
Even McKinsey consultants work in teams, starting at Analyst / Associate levels doing important but occasionally gruntingly boring work; before they become Engagement Managers, Junior Partners, then Partners... Takes them 10-12 years!
Think about your career, then about the education that will enable it. You're thinking the wrong way round.
All the best
Baccardisprite
Engineering Management (an MEM) involves both technical and management subjects (stuff like product engineering, manufacturing systems, supply chain, cost management & budgeting etc), and is a more appropriately career oriented degree (at your age, 22-24) than just a fluffy MBA or Masters in "Management". Provided the program falls under the US Government's STEM* guidelines (# and type of Engineering / Technical / Mathematical subjects or the nature of the degree), you can as a foreign graduate enjoy 29 months of internship & post graduation OPT (optional practical training) time in the US.
STEM = Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics.
29 months is a huge advantage! You can creditably argue that you have a US work permit for 25-26 months (2+ years), get into the rotational program of a US based MNC or a an MNC with large US presence, work there and be ready to move to pretty much any location internationally including India.
You will not have a similar access or advantage in the US from a pure Masters in Management degree, because of 2 reasons: 1) these programs don't fall under the US Gov's STEM guidelines, so graduates have only the standard 1 year OPT post graduation; 2) you don't have the experience to offer any employer the incentive to sponsor an H1B for you.
To work in Germany taking advantage of any post-study work option, you'll need to learn German up to a Business Fluent level i.e the ability to speak with, interact, negotiate with, present to and close deals using exclusively German.
What makes you so afraid of technical subjects?
Don't get too taken in by people who go into business school (even the IIMs) and come out in "management" roles. They're all performing a "functional" out of graduation, and will grow into their career in such functional roles (e.g marketing, supply planning, finance, procurement etc..), as they grow more experienced & skilled, they will get to "manage" a group of people performing one function, then groups who manage more than one function, then a large business unit, then a company!!! It takes 15-25 years, depending on industry to get to the true "management" levels... Everyone starts small, unless they're Kumar Birla.
Even McKinsey consultants work in teams, starting at Analyst / Associate levels doing important but occasionally gruntingly boring work; before they become Engagement Managers, Junior Partners, then Partners... Takes them 10-12 years!
Think about your career, then about the education that will enable it. You're thinking the wrong way round.
All the best
Baccardisprite
@baccardisprite
Thanks so much for going through that trouble to make me understand
well now that i got a picture i would surely aim at mem
but my question is will there be programming involved
i don't know if i am afraid but i just never liked it
Thanks again
Regards
Teja
@Stpk
Engineering & Technology is more than just programming! It's working, moving things! You "might" see some programming an MEM, but there'll be a lot else to learn, so don't worry.
All the best
Baccardisprite
Engineering & Technology is more than just programming! It's working, moving things! You "might" see some programming an MEM, but there'll be a lot else to learn, so don't worry.
All the best
Baccardisprite
@baccardisprite
yeah thanks baccardi
also could you please give some ranking for mem courses and any chances of scholarship in mem considering my experience of 2.5 years
also could you please list out any other courses that i have missed pertinent to management in
other countries as well
Thanks a ton
Teja
@Stpk
Scholarships are earned, not handed out like candy. Stop laying conditions & deadlines to what will be an investment for a career 30-35 years post graduating the MEM!
Why don't you try researching? Start with googling Europe's best Engineering Schools / Universities, same with places like Canada, Australia or other Anglophone universities (unless you want to go to different one) then go to their websites, understand what they offer, then see what you get. MEM's will be offered by most schools that have a well regarded department / school / university of Industrial Engineering / Operations Research or Systems Engineering. And when we say "systems", it's not only computers and IT....
Your work in the future will be heavily research and analysis based... Might as well start now.
All the best
Baccardisprite
Scholarships are earned, not handed out like candy. Stop laying conditions & deadlines to what will be an investment for a career 30-35 years post graduating the MEM!
Why don't you try researching? Start with googling Europe's best Engineering Schools / Universities, same with places like Canada, Australia or other Anglophone universities (unless you want to go to different one) then go to their websites, understand what they offer, then see what you get. MEM's will be offered by most schools that have a well regarded department / school / university of Industrial Engineering / Operations Research or Systems Engineering. And when we say "systems", it's not only computers and IT....
Your work in the future will be heavily research and analysis based... Might as well start now.
All the best
Baccardisprite
Hello, I would like to know whether my profile stands any chance of getting into top colleges.
I have scored low in my grad exam. So I am not eligible for most of the courses. Although, I can apply for S P jain, XLRI, Welingkars.
I am having an average academic profile.
10th - 76%
12th - 60%
Grad - 45% (BA in POl Science)
Work Exp - 2 years in Graphic Designing(ad agency) and 4 years in Corporate Communication (BFSI)
Extra curricular - moderate, worked with NGOs, participated in conferences
Strengths - Good work experience, Performer throughout career
Weakness - average academics
Planning to appear for CMAT / XAT....
I have screwed my grad score owing to my concentration on other things, I am confident of scoring high in CMAT OR XAT.
Do I stand a chance to enter in mentioned colleges ? Please advice...
ďťż
I have scored low in my grad exam. So I am not eligible for most of the courses. Although, I can apply for S P jain, XLRI, Welingkars.
I am having an average academic profile.
10th - 76%
12th - 60%
Grad - 45% (BA in POl Science)
Work Exp - 2 years in Graphic Designing(ad agency) and 4 years in Corporate Communication (BFSI)
Extra curricular - moderate, worked with NGOs, participated in conferences
Strengths - Good work experience, Performer throughout career
Weakness - average academics
Planning to appear for CMAT / XAT....
I have screwed my grad score owing to my concentration on other things, I am confident of scoring high in CMAT OR XAT.
Do I stand a chance to enter in mentioned colleges ? Please advice...
ďťż
@baccardisprite
Hi
I want to go for MiM right after graduation because I want to change my stream from engineering to management(...and towards finance). Also, m not in favor of waiting because then I would rather go for an MBA. The main reason for MiM is that it doesn't require "experienced" people. I am definitely working towards a pretty high gmat but just wanted to make sure I have a good profile. :)
@braincrash
:-)
What (in your view specifically) is "management"? You want to use the MiM to commence a career in "management" (correct?), and want to get into an MiM because it doesn't require "experienced" people. Yet we keep hearing, with some justification that only "experienced" people enter management ranks, which seems to contradict your supposed logic.
What makes you different enough for some company to hire you in "management" right after your MiM? What skills are you bringing to the "management" game? I am truly curious!
What makes you more special than someone who chooses to work for a few years, learns a few things about work and life, then goes for a top MBA and gets into a company as a "associate / manager" of whatever?
All the best
Baccardisprite
:-)
What (in your view specifically) is "management"? You want to use the MiM to commence a career in "management" (correct?), and want to get into an MiM because it doesn't require "experienced" people. Yet we keep hearing, with some justification that only "experienced" people enter management ranks, which seems to contradict your supposed logic.
What makes you different enough for some company to hire you in "management" right after your MiM? What skills are you bringing to the "management" game? I am truly curious!
What makes you more special than someone who chooses to work for a few years, learns a few things about work and life, then goes for a top MBA and gets into a company as a "associate / manager" of whatever?
All the best
Baccardisprite
@baccardisprite said:@braincrashWhat (in your view specifically) is "management"? You want to use the MiM to commence a career in "management" (correct?), and want to get into an MiM because it doesn't require "experienced" people. Yet we keep hearing, with some justification that only "experienced" people enter management ranks, which seems to contradict your supposed logic.What makes you different enough for some company to hire you in "management" right after your MiM? What skills are you bringing to the "management" game? I am truly curious!What makes you more special than someone who chooses to work for a few years, learns a few things about work and life, then goes for a top MBA and gets into a company as a "associate / manager" of whatever?All the bestBaccardisprite
an mim that too in a non english speaking country lol
@baccardisprite
Ahh!! I knew "what is management" question would show up sometime. Well, let's just say that I want to CHANGE my stream from programmer to investment banking (i mentioned earlier too but you may have overlooked)
I did check the course structure and found that it was possible to change my stream via MiM.
For an MBA, I would need to work 3-4 yrs after graduation in a software company (that's the placement my college provides)
As far as "experience for management rank" goes, isn't it the fundamental identity of MiM that it is offered to no/minimal experience guys unlike mba which requires working professionals??
Because that's why I thought it would fit my requirements. Please correct me if am wrong anywhere and well I never said I would like start off as a country manager after MiM, did I?? :)
Isn't MiM taken as an MBA(more or less) in (atleast)Europe and that's why LBS, Duke etc have followed europeans and recently started with their own MiMs?
Hey man!! :)
Either contribute or GTFO!! ;)
@braincrash said:@baccardispriteAhh!! I knew "what is management" question would show up sometime. Well, let's just say that I want to CHANGE my stream from programmer to investment banking (i mentioned earlier too but you may have overlooked)I did check the course structure and found that it was possible to change my stream via MiM.For an MBA, I would need to work 3-4 yrs after graduation in a software company (that's the placement my college provides)As far as "experience for management rank" goes, isn't it the fundamental identity of MiM that it is offered to no/minimal experience guys unlike mba which requires working professionals??Because that's why I thought it would fit my requirements. Please correct me if am wrong anywhere and well I never said I would like start off as a country manager after MiM, did I??Isn't MiM taken as an MBA(more or less) in (atleast)Europe and that's why LBS, Duke etc have followed europeans and recently started with their own MiMs?Hey man!!Either contribute or GTFO!!
Good luck trying to get a job in Investment Banking without any relevant experience or internships, even if you go to LBS or Duke. The fact you are an international student will make this 100x harder to get a job, let alone a job in Investment Banking.
MiM is a useless degree to international students unless you already have a career plan, fluency in the local language and relevant experience to back it up.
@baccardisprite
hi
yeah i do agree with you sir
but i just asked as i heard that scholarships are difficult to get with respect to management
courses anyways thanks for the info
i did some search i zeroed in on ms in hr and ms in information systems offered by business schools
but to be frank i really want to be a hr
so with 2.5 years of experience
do i stand a chance if i pursue a masters in human resources management either in usa or canada
please help me with your invaluable comments
Thanks and Regards
Teja