Investment Banking in India and Abroad

Jobs & Careers
208

Hi,

Been off the radar for a bit enjoying my holidays and now will be starting my summers from this week - so will be less regular here. If any of you have any IBD-India related queries or IIM-related queries send me a PM and I will reply as soon as I can.


@echoes 7 & Jamiroquai :

i'm a final year grad in an IIT. I've been offered a role as an Analyst in a leading IB (one from the BB). Last week I gave interviews for IIM A/B/C, and am pretty hopeful of getting converts. What, according to you, would be a better option: joining the IB job and later going for an MBA, or joining the IIMs straightaway (if i get a convert)?

@echoes7: Since you're already from IIM-C, can you please tell me this: During the placements, do freshers stand at a significant disadvantage compared to the work-ex guyz? In other words, are the people who get the best jobs on campus only work-ex guyz, or freshers as well? Is there a significant difference in the average packages that freshers get and work-ex's get?


Nope, freshers are not at a disadvantage during placements. They get similar jobs as people with prior work-ex. Packages depend on individual companies, but at least for IBD, as in most other sectors, there is no difference in packages between freshers and work-ex guys.



Hi Jamiroquai/ ethos7,

First of all, I really appreciate your efforts in solving people's queries about investment banking and related stuffs. Keep up the good work!

My query - I have a year and a half work ex. in internet marketing firm (Search engine marketer at a Manager position). I have great interest in IB and even tried getting into it before but could not crack one due to the high expectations of the recruiters. Now, after 2 years of work-ex I want to get into IB. My plan is to first crack a Good B-school in india (Considering MDI-G and NITIE- Mumbai as well), get an MBA, and then try for IB as an analyst(Front or Middle office). I want to know if my work ex would be of great help and would the employer consider my work ex relevant to their business. I have been handling big US clients in my field and have managed big teams as well. I can prove them that I am really good in my domain but would they consider this during my interviews.

Thanks.


All the best for your MBA journey! Your prior work-ex performance will be judged during interview stage. Finance work-ex will get you brownie points, but other work-ex will not score as much, for obvious reasons. What I-banks basically look for are extremely bright, intelligent individuals who have a "spark" in them. If you can provide them awesome achievements from your previous work-ex in any domain, you are in a better position.
209
jamiroquai and echoes7 are doing a wonderful job here,,,,, thx guyz and keep it up......
but wut kind of firm an work ex for 2 yrs do u prefer yar..

*PEACE*


Pick a company where "you" would love to work in and you know you would excel in that. An awesome performance and a track record in any company would trump an anonymous performance in a top-notch company. Go through the thread's earlier posts and you will find info about the kind of profiles you can go for pre-MBA.
210
I wanted to enquire if which course was better between the foll two:
1) MBA Capital Markets at NMIMS ( 2 years )
2) FT progrm at School of Investment Banking which also include Investment Banking and Equity analysis ( 3 months )
Please also consider placements of the two , integrity and reputation of the two instititutes and the time invested( 2 yrs vs 3 months )

PLZ guide since I a m a fresher right now and decide soon.


I do not have first-hand information about either of the 2 - I would suggest you yourself find out information about all the parameters you suggested - mostly by talking to current students and alums - and then take an informed decision. Btw, the 2nd program is not actually an MBA right? Am not sure if any Bank would hire a 3-month program passout over an MBA.
211

Thx echoes7
thx jamiroquai . ..
But i wanted to ask 1 ques,???
wut are ur guyz backgrounds,??
i mean wut are ur educational qualificatuons and other things???

*PEACE*

212
Hey

Wanted to ask a general question here.. I am a 2009 undergrad working for a Top-5 Global I bank (M&A;, front-office) in India.

I am currently debating between IIMs Vs ISB Vs International Business Schools for 2012 applications.

Does someone with 2-3 years of front-office analyst work-ex get a better position at IIMs/ISB than some fresher or non-IBD person. Most of my friends at IIMs/ISB say that only 10-20 'Analyst' roles are offered every year at IIMs (I am only counting global top 10+IBD not trading)

However, the sheer cost factor (15 lakhs Vs 8o Lakhs) works in favour of IIMs.

Any help/opinions will be appreciated.

PS: I am not discounting how tough CAT can be. Just deciding before I take a plunge for 2012 applications
213

If you have your answer of Why MBA and post MBA plans in 2012 . You should be able to answer it yourself ...
from what it looks , you want to continue in IBD , in that case head for intl schools with financial locations ( NY, HK, LON, SG ) , your chances increases tremendously in moving up the IBD Ladder after MBA .

Cheers
Ps: Cant your firm sponsor you in doing one and get back at same firm/diff location or same location:) (Just asking )
PPS: not an IBD guy , but have seen the entire process cycle of Intl MBA both from and outside india

Hey
Wanted to ask a general question here.. I am a 2009 undergrad working for a Top-5 Global I bank (M&A;, front-office) in India.
I am currently debating between IIMs Vs ISB Vs International Business Schools for 2012 applications.
Does someone with 2-3 years of front-office analyst work-ex get a better position at IIMs/ISB than some fresher or non-IBD person. Most of my friends at IIMs/ISB say that only 10-20 'Analyst' roles are offered every year at IIMs (I am only counting global top 10+IBD not trading)
However, the sheer cost factor (15 lakhs Vs 8o Lakhs) works in favour of IIMs.
Any help/opinions will be appreciated.
PS: I am not discounting how tough CAT can be. Just deciding before I take a plunge for 2012 applications
214
silentcacophony Says
...you want to continue in IBD , in that case head for intl schools with financial locations ( NY, HK, LON, SG ) , your chances increases tremendously in moving up the IBD Ladder after MBA...


In that context, there is disappointing news for schools in
HK: IBD recruiting here sucks if you don't speak mandarin. Plus, unless you're in S&T;, getting a job here in core finance is very tough
LON: IBD recruiting here is on the downswing, especially considering that many of the bankers here are looking to jump across the pond to NY. Plus the new migration rules make getting a job here after your MBA almost impossible
SG: Sucks for job opportunities in IBD after your MBA. In fact, a close friend of mine got an offer to join JP Morgan's IBD practice as a Summer Associate in Singapore only because he speaks Tamil and Mandarin and is a Singaporean.
215

I cant vouch for other places but for HK .. Mandarin is only beneficial as recommended advantange , not a requisite, its not even spoken by the people of HK ( the language of HK is cantonese and not Mandarin) plus expats in Hk dont even speak either of the language and i am talking of expats working in financial firms/I Banks in the central business district .


But yes, one aspect i have observed in last couple of months is more and more ppl from LON, Paris, FRA, NY are relocating here for finance jobs and IBD FO, MO , Its been heavy influx of expats ( especially french :P) for grabbing roles here and thus competition has increased two-three fold , so thats something to consider about .

Cheers
Ps : I reside in HK ( albeit not working in IBD/finance :))





In that context, there is disappointing news for schools in
HK: IBD recruiting here sucks if you don't speak mandarin. Plus, unless you're in S&T;, getting a job here in core finance is very tough
LON: IBD recruiting here is on the downswing, especially considering that many of the bankers here are looking to jump across the pond to NY. Plus the new migration rules make getting a job here after your MBA almost impossible
SG: Sucks for job opportunities in IBD after your MBA. In fact, a close friend of mine got an offer to join JP Morgan's IBD practice as a Summer Associate in Singapore only because he speaks Tamil and Mandarin and is a Singaporean.
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silentcacophony Says
I cant vouch for other places but for HK .. Mandarin is only beneficial as recommended advantange , not a requisite, its not even spoken by the people of HK ( the language of HK is cantonese and not Mandarin) plus expats in Hk dont even speak either of the language...


Thanks for the insight! My view of recruiting in HK, in this case, is developed from the second-hand information I received when I was enquiring about recruiting there for an Associate position. In IBD they preferred the locals who spoke the language due to the fact that HK is the closest major financial market to mainland China - therefore, speaking Mandarin is viewed as of being essential, especially when it comes to BB recruiting. This information has not been verified, but I appreciate your insight.

In fact, for S&T; and other non-client facing roles, not knowing the language is perfectly fine (a buddy of mine will be joining Citi's HK office in an S&T; Summer Associate role and he's an Indian at Cornell with me).
217
YouTube - Investment banking

this video is good for learning the basics:)
218

Hey

In India I-banks don't have undergrad analyst programs and they recruit on a case-by-case basis, hence a company funded MBA is not likely

I know that a H/S/W/C is better for climbing the corporate ladder.. However, I may stick to IBD for only a few years (have a few other plans, plus when you do 16 hr days for a couple of years, it makes you look at better things in finance & other fields)

My question was quite simple.. If an IBD analyst (M&A;, India, Good Deal Experience) goes to an IIM, would he/she get an associate role? I can deal with the branding issues

If you have your answer of Why MBA and post MBA plans in 2012 . You should be able to answer it yourself ...
from what it looks , you want to continue in IBD , in that case head for intl schools with financial locations ( NY, HK, LON, SG ) , your chances increases tremendously in moving up the IBD Ladder after MBA .

Cheers
Ps: Cant your firm sponsor you in doing one and get back at same firm/diff location or same location:) (Just asking )
PPS: not an IBD guy , but have seen the entire process cycle of Intl MBA both from and outside india
219
...
My question was quite simple.. If an IBD analyst (M&A;, India, Good Deal Experience) goes to an IIM, would he/she get an associate role? I can deal with the branding issues


I vaguely recall one of the IIMs proudly proclaiming that one of their grads made Associate - so I suppose that it is quite possible to do the same, given that you come from a strongly allied industry background.
220

hello
i m doin my mba from birla institute of management technology noida in international business (finance).I want to get into investment banking.please guide me and also tell me is der any other course/programme dat i shud to do ((apart from cfa and ca plzzzzzzzz))?

221
Hey

Wanted to ask a general question here.. I am a 2009 undergrad working for a Top-5 Global I bank (M&A;, front-office) in India.

I am currently debating between IIMs Vs ISB Vs International Business Schools for 2012 applications.

Does someone with 2-3 years of front-office analyst work-ex get a better position at IIMs/ISB than some fresher or non-IBD person. Most of my friends at IIMs/ISB say that only 10-20 'Analyst' roles are offered every year at IIMs (I am only counting global top 10+IBD not trading)

However, the sheer cost factor (15 lakhs Vs 8o Lakhs) works in favour of IIMs.

Any help/opinions will be appreciated.

PS: I am not discounting how tough CAT can be. Just deciding before I take a plunge for 2012 applications


Yes, if you have around 3 years of front-office analyst work-ex, there is a good chance for you to get an Associate position. See, in IIM CAB, around 1/3rd of batch is freshers and at least a further 60% have non-IBD work-ex. Hence, the predominant position firms come to recruit for is for the Analyst role. Most people they hire have had ZERO prior finance/accounting exposure and have probably seen a balance sheet for the first time in their life in 1st term of MBA.

However, many Banks do come to recruit for Associate and other roles and if you have relevant Finance experience, you can definitely get in. For example, I know for sure that in IIM-C, a few guys have been recruited directly under Chief Investment Officer of a BB firm (Buy-side of I-Bank) and other PE firms/Hedge Funds - in my batch summer internship.

Regarding no. of full-time Analyst offers in Top-10 IBD, a lot depends on market scenario. This year, recruitment has been much better and I would say the number is much more than what you quoted. However, certain positions like Goldman Sachs, Nomura IBD etc are known to have a very small ratio of conversion - so I would suggest do not think much about competition during internship from now on. If you believe you are good enough, you can definitely get a Final IBD offer either through PPO or Final Placement.

And btw, if you are talking about Summer Internship IBD offers from top-10 firms, I can guarantee you it is much more than 20 in only IIM-C itself. So you can add similar numbers for A and B as well.


Hey

In India I-banks don't have undergrad analyst programs and they recruit on a case-by-case basis, hence a company funded MBA is not likely

I know that a H/S/W/C is better for climbing the corporate ladder.. However, I may stick to IBD for only a few years (have a few other plans, plus when you do 16 hr days for a couple of years, it makes you look at better things in finance & other fields)

My question was quite simple.. If an IBD analyst (M&A;, India, Good Deal Experience) goes to an IIM, would he/she get an associate role? I can deal with the branding issues


As I said earlier, yes he would - some firms do offer Associate profile and if you can exhibit your knowledge to your interviewers, there is no reason why they should not hire you in a higher position than Analyst.



If you have your answer of Why MBA and post MBA plans in 2012 . You should be able to answer it yourself ...
from what it looks , you want to continue in IBD , in that case head for intl schools with financial locations ( NY, HK, LON, SG ) , your chances increases tremendously in moving up the IBD Ladder after MBA .

Cheers
Ps: Cant your firm sponsor you in doing one and get back at same firm/diff location or same location:) (Just asking )
PPS: not an IBD guy , but have seen the entire process cycle of Intl MBA both from and outside india


International MBA is a very good option, but just for information, IIM students are also offered International IBD locations like NY, London, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc in huge numbers. Actually, if you calculate, you can possibly find more BB firms posting for IIM interns/final offers outside India.


In that context, there is disappointing news for schools in
HK: IBD recruiting here sucks if you don't speak mandarin. Plus, unless you're in S&T;, getting a job here in core finance is very tough
LON: IBD recruiting here is on the downswing, especially considering that many of the bankers here are looking to jump across the pond to NY. Plus the new migration rules make getting a job here after your MBA almost impossible
SG: Sucks for job opportunities in IBD after your MBA. In fact, a close friend of mine got an offer to join JP Morgan's IBD practice as a Summer Associate in Singapore only because he speaks Tamil and Mandarin and is a Singaporean.


Well, since senior bankers are leaving London, should not the IBD intake here be more now to compensate for it? I surely hope so, for obvious reasons

P.S. Again, reminding people - for urgent queries, PM me as I would not be able to check this thread regularly, as my internship is on currently! For general queries, post here and I will reply as soon as I can.

Cheers!
222
hello
i m doin my mba from birla institute of management technology noida in international business (finance).I want to get into investment banking.please guide me and also tell me is der any other course/programme dat i shud to do ((apart from cfa and ca plzzzzzzzz))?


Please go through the previous posts - you will get all your information needed. After reading them, if you have any specific queries, you can go ahead and ask them!


Thx echoes7
thx jamiroquai . ..
But i wanted to ask 1 ques,???
wut are ur guyz backgrounds,??
i mean wut are ur educational qualificatuons and other things???

*PEACE*


I have posted my details a year back on the "Profile of IIM converts" thread - you can go through the details there!
223

Oh - here's my profile:
BE (E&TC;)
5 months in Non -Performing Asset analysis & investigation
6 Months as an Analyst
1 year 6 months supervising Analysts (out of turn informal promotion)
7 months as a Manager (supervised Associates at one of the Ambani's IB-function companies (head-hunted from the large indian BB))
Cornell Full-time 2-year MBA
Summer Associate (Leveraged Finance) in #3 BB bank at their HQ in NYC

224

Hi Jamiroquai and echoes7

I need some help from you people. I was going through FMS placements 2011 and was unable to decipher them from the investment banking point of view.

I am posting the information from the website. I hope you can throw some light on it from the investment banking angle and the otherwise quality of the finance placements

33% of the batch is placed in Finance.
FMS remained a preferred destination for financial firms with a number of offers made across private equity, investment banking, markets, treasury, asset management, corporate finance, and wholesale and retail banking. Niche profiles offered by private equity firm Avigo Capital and investment banking major Avendus Capital emerged as some of the most sought after roles on campus. Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank returned to campus in style, making 6 and 5 offers respectively. Investment banking giants JP Morgan Chase and Nomura also recruited from FMS. Indian investment banks were well represented by ICICI Securities and SBI Capital. Citibank hired 6 students for roles in Singapore and Mumbai, while MNCs such as Barclays Bank, Standard Chartered, Bank of America, HSBC and American Express, as well as Indian institutions like Tata Capital, Axis Bank, ICICI Bank, Yes Bank, Religare, IFCI, HDFC and CRISIL also recruited in good numbers. Corporate finance roles were offered by major companies such as Essar, Hindustan Unilever, Nestle, Kraft-Cadbury, L&T; etc. 5 students rejected higher paying jobs to accept offers from the most reputed financial institution in the country- the Reserve Bank of India. Incidentally, RBI also made the highest number of offers at FMS across any campus.

Thanks in advance

225

U have a super profile jamiroquai..... Btw wut wuz ur gmat score when u got into cornell... I also aim to make it to ivy league's some day.....
GOD BLESS ALL
*PEACE*

226
Oh - here's my profile:
BE (E&TC;)
5 months in Non -Performing Asset analysis & investigation
6 Months as an Analyst
1 year 6 months supervising Analysts (out of turn informal promotion)
7 months as a Manager (supervised Associates at one of the Ambani's IB-function companies (head-hunted from the large indian BB))
Cornell Full-time 2-year MBA
Summer Associate (Leveraged Finance) in #3 BB bank at their HQ in NYC


1.Have you ever worked at front office or have you been a part of any IPO deal or actual fund raising deal.
2.Front office would mean sales and Product development(financial innovations) would I guess need financial engineers or guys good in mathematics....

More over the better valuation you get for a company more is the bonus.... am i correct???
228
U have a super profile jamiroquai..... Btw wut wuz ur gmat score when u got into cornell... I also aim to make it to ivy league's some day.....
GOD BLESS ALL
*PEACE*


For US B-schools, your GMAT score is almost irrelevant (once you cross the 700 mark). What they're more interested in is your previous work experience and how non-IT it is. Not that IT is bad, (my best friends are in IT), but the number of Indian IT Male applicants is so high, there are very few differentiators between one candidate and the next.

Mine was 720