Well, I kinda told you the exact qualities which an I-bank looks for when recruiting for a front office job from the Top B-schools in India - that is the skill-set they advertise. A finance background is preferred, but it is in no way a necessity.
Yes, if you want to put it bluntly, all they are looking for is "they just want intelligent people and they find them in good colleges", as you said. They are picking up students with superlative performance in the toughest MBA entrance exam around given by 200,000+ people, and obviously most of the people they shortlist have prior IIT background or have extremely good academic performance.
To answer your exact question, an individual does not suddenly develop much extra "skillset" as such, which makes him suddenly an I-banker overnight. You need an MBA with Finance degree and doing it from either of IIM-C/A/B obviously places you in a better position as they are considered the best in India. The alumni network of these instis obviously helps getting in these global I-banks for recruitment.
For an IIM interview, if you want to say that joining an I-bank is your basic reason to do an MBA, you have to convince the interviewers that it is your real goal. Find out as much as you can about your dream IBD job and try to correlate some of the things you have done earlier and why suddenly you want to be an I-banker. If you can establish your reason for being an I-banker, an MBA in Finance is obviously easier to explain as it will provide you opportunities to get recruited as one.
P.S. Yup, it is originally from "Meddle", but also featured in Pompeii.
As a small aside - I hope all of you are aware of Mergers & Inquisitions
This is one of their many solid posts. (I wouldn't advise taking any of their "pay" packages, their advice is tremendously US-specific. Their free advice and articles are a great insight into an advanced IB culture which exists in the US. (Even as close as Canada, the IB industry is not very well developed - nor in Europe, except in London and (if you can speak mandarin) HK)
For someone seriously interested in Investment Banking, it's really tough to make a call on B-schools here. There is so much misinformation floating around that you wouldn't believe.
Especially with all the obfuscation of placement reports, seniors giving incorrect or general advice or plain lying and the endless examples of "My cousin/uncle/friend/friend's friend" etc made it to Nomura/J P Morgan/Goldman Sachs and he's from xyz college (whose name you haven't even heard).
My friend is in such a dilemma too since he has multiple IIM calls and FMS and XLRI too. He keeps hearing different things from different people. Some even say that it's "standard" to move from middle to front office in about 3 years. Hard to believe. And some seniors are preparing for CFA even though their colleges definitely don't attract investment banks' front office positions.
For someone seriously interested in Investment Banking, it's really tough to make a call on B-schools here. There is so much misinformation floating around that you wouldn't believe.
"In the Finance sector, the key recruitments took place from Banks and Financial Sector firms. The positions offered were in Investment Banking, Proprietary Trading, Treasury, M & A and Global Risk Management to name a few. Prominent financial firms include Amex, Avendus Capital, Axis Bank, Baring Private Equity Partners, CRISIL, DBS, Edelweiss, Futures First, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, HDFC Bank, ICICI Bank, ICICI Prudential, IIFL, Indus Valley Partners, JM Financial, JP Morgan, Karvy, Kotak Wealth Management, Nomura, SBI Capital, Standard Chartered and Yes Bank among many others."
Primarily prop trading, smaller PE funds, commercial banking and i'm guessing some middle/back office roles in BB firms???
I'm asking you this because IIM L is placed right after ABC. This would clear a lot of doubts.
And how would you compare PE and wealth management to i banking? I know that people do try and move into PE after a few years at an Investment Bank (though its a hard jump) )because the work hours are not as bad all the time and the pay is way more. But at a smaller PE fund wouldn't the pay max out at a much lower level?
Primarily prop trading, smaller PE funds, commercial banking and i'm guessing some middle/back office roles in BB firms???
Cannot authoritatively comment on where L is getting their grads placed. I've seen IIM-I guys in the NYC office of JPMC. We would need someone from IIM-L to respond to this.
... And how would you compare PE and wealth management to i banking?
Wealth management is not real investment banking. It's too much schmoozing and most people here in the US don't even seriously consider it. Plus, for a pittance of the bonus, Wealth Management guys suffer really high beta on their jobs.
I know that people do try and move into PE after a few years at an Investment Bank (though its a hard jump) )because the work hours are not as bad all the time and the pay is way more. But at a smaller PE fund wouldn't the pay max out at a much lower level?
Don't be fooled by that rumors. PE hours are as bad as banking hours. In both fields, as you get more senior, the hours ease up. PE is more status, tho. Big PE shops hire the super best of the best. Most of the PE hires here are HBS Baker scholars. Its THAT competitive! The variable pay is higher - not the fixed component. However, at junior levels, its more or less the same. You have to climb into the upper levels of the PE ecosphere to experience the magical bonuses that require your bank to re-align its capital adequacy requirements
Also, I don't understand your statement about the smaller PE fund.?
I've worked at JP Morgan in Bangalore the back office operations and as per my understanding the key roles in hardcore Investment Banking is Sales, Research and Trading. Now my question is where do you allot these positions in terms of Front, Mid and Back?
Sales is certainly Front but what about Research and Trading as they do not interact with the clients?
Cannot authoritatively comment on where L is getting their grads placed. I've seen IIM-I guys in the NYC office of JPMC. We would need someone from IIM-L to respond to this.
Wealth management is not real investment banking. It's too much schmoozing and most people here in the US don't even seriously consider it. Plus, for a pittance of the bonus, Wealth Management guys suffer really high beta on their jobs.
Don't be fooled by that rumors. PE hours are as bad as banking hours. In both fields, as you get more senior, the hours ease up. PE is more status, tho. Big PE shops hire the super best of the best. Most of the PE hires here are HBS Baker scholars. Its THAT competitive! The variable pay is higher - not the fixed component. However, at junior levels, its more or less the same. You have to climb into the upper levels of the PE ecosphere to experience the magical bonuses that require your bank to re-align its capital adequacy requirements
Also, I don't understand your statement about the smaller PE fund.?
Well basically I just wanted your opinion on the kind of private equity firms listed. From what I saw on google, these are not big funds. Not the kind to be compared with what HBS scholars get except for Baring pvt equity partners.
Again, does private equity also offer a variety of profiles just as investment banks do?
Sorry to veer towards pvt equity etc but these fields are really interrelated. Hence the curiosity.
hi guys . i am final year undergraduate student from a top most nit . I got an offer in the IT division in bulge bracket investment bank in mumbai.i have a few questions . Would i be able to learn anything about finance in these roles .What will be my future prospects if i join this kind of role .??
What are the prospects of growth if i do cfa along with this IT role in the BB firm .?? What are my prospects of getting into investment banking front office role if i do mba from the topmost colleges like iim s and XL after 2 years experience.??
If not investment banking ,what are the oppurtunities available to people in this kind of job.??
I've worked at JP Morgan in Bangalore the back office operations and as per my understanding the key roles in hardcore Investment Banking is Sales, Research and Trading. Now my question is where do you allot these positions in terms of Front, Mid and Back?
Sales is certainly Front but what about Research and Trading as they do not interact with the clients?
Sales & Trading is not investment banking. It is a division within most investment banks dealing with securities in the secondary market. Research is a supporting activity. Please see my earlier posts for what real IB is.
hi guys . i am final year undergraduate student from a top most nit . I got an offer in the IT division in bulge bracket investment bank in mumbai.i have a few questions . Would i be able to learn anything about finance in these roles .What will be my future prospects if i join this kind of role .??
What are the prospects of growth if i do cfa along with this IT role in the BB firm .?? What are my prospects of getting into investment banking front office role if i do mba from the topmost colleges like iim s and XL after 2 years experience.??
If not investment banking ,what are the oppurtunities available to people in this kind of job.??
You will learn a lot about Sales & Trading and technicals, if you take this job. Getting a CFA alongside this role will help you learn more about your job. However, you will still need an MBA after this. Your prospects of IB front office are then dependent on your school and its recruiting
What if someone from India does an MBA from one among AIM-Manila ,NUS-Singapore and HKU? What are his chances of bagging a front-office role in a bulge-bucket IB in India? How does the industry perceive an MBA from such institutes? How does an MBA from those three institutes stand up in comparision to an MBA from the IIMs ? Is it better to do an MBA from those three institutes than from any institute ranked 15-35 in India ? Kindly clarify my doubts.
What if someone from India does an MBA from one among AIM-Manila ,NUS-Singapore and HKU?
I don't mean to come off as a ****, but those are schools where you as an Indian graduate without a job. And with a school that offers you no job after, you're in a poor bargaining position.
... How does an MBA from those three institutes stand up in comparision to an MBA from the IIMs ?
No comparison. I am at an ivy league school but I still got respect for those at ABC (as peers). Those guys go places all around the world!
Is it better to do an MBA from those three institutes than from any institute ranked 15-35 in India ? Kindly clarify my doubts.
If you're thinking IB, forget the 15-3,500 bracket and forget the s'pore schools.
Guys, as you would no doubt understand, I have tons of pressure at b-school, so getting to this thread is something I do on my "me" time. And I like helping you guys out.
I hate to do this - but I'm getting wayy too many messages from people pointing me to some link and asking me if that school is a good school. This is a waste of my time. This is not a thread to advise you on career stuff or schools - this is a banking related thread
The purpose of this thread is to help people understand investment banking. I would encourage everyone to post their questions on banking. I endeavor to provide advice that you would not find ordinarily - so asking me questions like is ICFAI is a good school for investment banking is the most immense waste of my time ever - coz those kind of questions answer themselves. I'm sure that anyone could tell you whats what when it comes to most school questions (except the IIM questions - the IIM guys are notorious for not talking much about themselves!)
Also, to help everyone on the thread, if you have a question on the thread topic, please put it on the thread. Share your questions...
Can you tell us how some IIM grads (even non ABC ones) are getting into PE firms without having any prior experience in investment banking?... Avendus Capital Baring Private Equity Partners JM Financial Karvy
Except Barings, I think the others are mid-sized PE / IB hybrids. They hire people for the middle market compensation level - Associates start at about Rs. 14L (as of what I remember in 2007. If they were to try and hire ex-investment bankers, they would have to start at a multiple of this.
I am a trader who works on NIFTY FUTURES using indicators (bollinger , RSI , Stochastics, williams). I want to work with big trading desks . What companies should i target . Right now I have a call from XLRI .
can you please let me know in which domain does equity research falls???
I'm sure that anyone could tell you whats what when it comes to most school questions (except the IIM questions - the IIM guys are notorious for not talking much about themselves!)
Hehe, I can't disagree too much there, but there are always exceptions
Can you tell us how some IIM grads (even non ABC ones) are getting into PE firms without having any prior experience in investment banking?
Examples of firms :
Avendus Capital Baring Private Equity Partners JM Financial Karvy
Well, there are many PE firms who go to these campuses (generally ABC) for recruiting and pick up people whom they like. It is difficult to predict what you exactly need to get in, but generally they hire people who have arounad 2-3 years work-experience in any specific sector and see how much they know about a sector. PE firms have a very small workforce and having a "cultural fit" with the firm is also very important when a firm is recruiting someone.
I am a trader who works on NIFTY FUTURES using indicators (bollinger , RSI , Stochastics, williams). I want to work with big trading desks . What companies should i target . Right now I have a call from XLRI .
can you please let me know in which domain does equity research falls???
and what exactly is private equity ?
Congrats - all the best for converting your XL call! I-Banks come on the first day of placements and what companies you should target will depend totally on which companies come to your college in that specific year.
Equity Research is basically research, as the name suggests and generally part of the Markets division of an I-Bank (along with Sales, Trading and Structuring).
Private Equity firms work with a very large amount of funds and design investment options. To find out more about both PE and ER, just google and there is a lot of info available.
