Hi Jamiroquai... Great thread buddy !!
I have two questions:
First is:
I am doing MBA from a college which is not very well known but certainly manages to get position in top 35 B-schools of India. Now as you say i need to have superb contacts if I want to see myself working in an Investment bank...But unfortunately i don't have any such contacts. so tell me what can I do to improve my profile so as to manage placement in some decent firm ?
Second is:
I'll be doing my internship in coming two months. what kind of work profile should I go for so that it adds some value to my resume ???
Hello everyone!
I am a B.Tech grad from IIT Bombay and have been working in mechanical engineering domain since the last couple of months. I seriously need to enter investment banking domain as I believe my analytical skills are better served with better fruits here than anywhere else. The problem is; first, my academic record is not good, and secondly, I have no experience here. In other words, I am a complete fresher. So could anybody guide me how I should move further to pursue my career?
Regards
Bruce
@Ratter
Whoa! Calm down mate! Seems like you suddenly got angry and spilled over your anger into this thread 
Buddy, no-one is saying Investment Banking is the most-awesomest-kickass-job-ever-in-this-world! However, there is a certain amount of "glamour" associated with it and what Jamiroquai and me are trying to do is - give you guys an idea about the hard realities of this industry. Investment Banking is a high-risk high-return job with insane hours of work and insane (not that much any more!) bonuses.
echoes7: dont you feel Investment banking ( front office) is the worst job for some one who can easily read charts and do the techniclas ( basically print legal money) and do some wonderful work.....
Investment banking I guess can make you only a slave and never an employer..... Stock market is the saviour for a number cruncher and a chart specialist...
hey thanks Jamourqui.... I have started hating investment banking....
relationship business @ investment banking is no big deal... as per me minimum skill set reqired....
PS: Mastering charts is aint that easy!!!!
Now, regarding your specific queries, No, I do not think Investment Banking is "the worst job for some one who can easily read charts and do the techniclas ( basically print legal money) and do some wonderful work" - not sure what exactly your point was, but still no.
Slave? to employer? Err, in every job you have a superior who can call you up at Friday 5pm and ask for a report by Monday morning - one which will ruin your whole weekend plan. If that makes you a slave, then yes most working people are
What all i learned from these posts is that....
XYZ company wants to raise money through an IPO contacts ABC comapany(Investment bank)... This invetsment bank that will make a lot of money out of this deal , will ask one of its top investment banker ( some middle class IIT/NIT with IIM/XL/ISB degree) to drink with the client , make best use of his analytical mind( some hard work and research) plus some communication skills to get the business and then work day nd night for the deal and make a succesful IPO.... in the end this investment gets a hefty bonus on 31st march!!!!
Fee generator right????
Equity research is so better!!!!
Hehe, I am kinda amazed to see your perception of IBD, buddy! All the BB firms must be absolutely crazy then to pay hefty bonuses to front-office IBD fellows
Anyway, let me clear out certain stuff - IBD is coveted because it is a front end job and hence gives you much larger exposure. You seem to think that all an I-banker does is drink with the client and close the deal suggested to him by people at the backend (Equity Research or Markets people, right?).
My dear friend, it is only the senior I-banker who gives a presentation alone in front of a Fortune 500 CEO, his CFO and 20 other senior members of his firm bombarding him with questions about why exactly he is choosing this plan and not something else. Has he considered the scenario if the forecast is off by 10% and what should be the plan then? Out there, the I-banker cannot say "Sorry sir, I was told this by my back-end team" or "Sorry sir, the Analyst team did not calculate that possibility". It is the I-banker whose ass is on the line and he has to know inside-out of the deal he is suggesting. He can have a few supporting member with him but at the end, he is representing the firm to get an order of millions of dollars, in direct competition with other BB firms who have equally good offers (and sometimes better).
Equity Research or other backend/middle-office jobs are definitely less stressful where you are only answerable to people within your organization for your mistakes. For a senior I-banker, you have to face music from the client as well! By the way, Equity Research is hardly involved in this process - they just prepare numerous reports and it is upto the junior I-bankers or Analysts to use them to prepare the presentation or not. In most BB firms, I-bankers have short stints in different divisions within IBD, including sector/industry research - so yes, they are supposed to know a lot more than you think
Anyway mate, that's all from me - if you feel Equity Research is the best job for you, go ahead with it -to each his own!
Hi Jamiroquai... Great thread buddy !!
I have two questions:
First is:
I am doing MBA from a college which is not very well known but certainly manages to get position in top 35 B-schools of India. Now as you say i need to have superb contacts if I want to see myself working in an Investment bank...But unfortunately i don't have any such contacts. so tell me what can I do to improve my profile so as to manage placement in some decent firm ?
Second is:
I'll be doing my internship in coming two months. what kind of work profile should I go for so that it adds some value to my resume ???
Hi,
My suggestion: Build up experience in a Finance profile - preferably Corporate Finance/Wealth Management/Treasury related role. Work your way up and see how your career pans out in a few years. You can even contemplate a 2nd MBA from an Ivy-League B-school later on, if the opportunity arises. Reg internship, same advice - build up your Finance work-ex.
Hello everyone!
I am a B.Tech grad from IIT Bombay and have been working in mechanical engineering domain since the last couple of months. I seriously need to enter investment banking domain as I believe my analytical skills are better served with better fruits here than anywhere else. The problem is; first, my academic record is not good, and secondly, I have no experience here. In other words, I am a complete fresher. So could anybody guide me how I should move further to pursue my career?
Regards
Bruce
As said earlier, either you need to have awesome contacts in IBD or get into a top B-school where they come to hire - then prepare accordingly.
@Ratter
Whoa! Calm down mate! Seems like you suddenly got angry and spilled over your anger into this thread
Buddy, no-one is saying Investment Banking is the most-awesomest-kickass-job-ever-in-this-world! However, there is a certain amount of "glamour" associated with it and what Jamiroquai and me are trying to do is - give you guys an idea about the hard realities of this industry. Investment Banking is a high-risk high-return job with insane hours of work and insane (not that much any more!) bonuses.
Now, regarding your specific queries, No, I do not think Investment Banking is "the worst job for some one who can easily read charts and do the techniclas ( basically print legal money) and do some wonderful work" - not sure what exactly your point was, but still no.
Slave? to employer? Err, in every job you have a superior who can call you up at Friday 5pm and ask for a report by Monday morning - one which will ruin your whole weekend plan. If that makes you a slave, then yes most working people are
Hehe, I am kinda amazed to see your perception of IBD, buddy! All the BB firms must be absolutely crazy then to pay hefty bonuses to front-office IBD fellows
Anyway, let me clear out certain stuff - IBD is coveted because it is a front end job and hence gives you much larger exposure. You seem to think that all an I-banker does is drink with the client and close the deal suggested to him by people at the backend (Equity Research or Markets people, right?).
My dear friend, it is only the senior I-banker who gives a presentation alone in front of a Fortune 500 CEO, his CFO and 20 other senior members of his firm bombarding him with questions about why exactly he is choosing this plan and not something else. Has he considered the scenario if the forecast is off by 10% and what should be the plan then? Out there, the I-banker cannot say "Sorry sir, I was told this by my back-end team" or "Sorry sir, the Analyst team did not calculate that possibility". It is the I-banker whose ass is on the line and he has to know inside-out of the deal he is suggesting. He can have a few supporting member with him but at the end, he is representing the firm to get an order of millions of dollars, in direct competition with other BB firms who have equally good offers (and sometimes better).
Equity Research or other backend/middle-office jobs are definitely less stressful where you are only answerable to people within your organization for your mistakes. For a senior I-banker, you have to face music from the client as well! By the way, Equity Research is hardly involved in this process - they just prepare numerous reports and it is upto the junior I-bankers or Analysts to use them to prepare the presentation or not. In most BB firms, I-bankers have short stints in different divisions within IBD, including sector/industry research - so yes, they are supposed to know a lot more than you think
Anyway mate, that's all from me - if you feel Equity Research is the best job for you, go ahead with it -to each his own! :thumbsup:
Thanx for this enlightening post and I agree that people should restrain their emotions while posting on threads since managers are supposed to have cool heads in pressure situations.
how can i b an investment banker.???
@Ratter
Whoa! Calm down mate! Seems like you suddenly got angry and spilled over your anger into this thread
Buddy, no-one is saying Investment Banking is the most-awesomest-kickass-job-ever-in-this-world! However, there is a certain amount of "glamour" associated with it and what Jamiroquai and me are trying to do is - give you guys an idea about the hard realities of this industry. Investment Banking is a high-risk high-return job with insane hours of work and insane (not that much any more!) bonuses.
Now, regarding your specific queries, No, I do not think Investment Banking is "the worst job for some one who can easily read charts and do the techniclas ( basically print legal money) and do some wonderful work" - not sure what exactly your point was, but still no.
Slave? to employer? Err, in every job you have a superior who can call you up at Friday 5pm and ask for a report by Monday morning - one which will ruin your whole weekend plan. If that makes you a slave, then yes most working people are
Hehe, I am kinda amazed to see your perception of IBD, buddy! All the BB firms must be absolutely crazy then to pay hefty bonuses to front-office IBD fellows
Anyway, let me clear out certain stuff - IBD is coveted because it is a front end job and hence gives you much larger exposure. You seem to think that all an I-banker does is drink with the client and close the deal suggested to him by people at the backend (Equity Research or Markets people, right?).
My dear friend, it is only the senior I-banker who gives a presentation alone in front of a Fortune 500 CEO, his CFO and 20 other senior members of his firm bombarding him with questions about why exactly he is choosing this plan and not something else. Has he considered the scenario if the forecast is off by 10% and what should be the plan then? Out there, the I-banker cannot say "Sorry sir, I was told this by my back-end team" or "Sorry sir, the Analyst team did not calculate that possibility". It is the I-banker whose ass is on the line and he has to know inside-out of the deal he is suggesting. He can have a few supporting member with him but at the end, he is representing the firm to get an order of millions of dollars, in direct competition with other BB firms who have equally good offers (and sometimes better).
Equity Research or other backend/middle-office jobs are definitely less stressful where you are only answerable to people within your organization for your mistakes. For a senior I-banker, you have to face music from the client as well! By the way, Equity Research is hardly involved in this process - they just prepare numerous reports and it is upto the junior I-bankers or Analysts to use them to prepare the presentation or not. In most BB firms, I-bankers have short stints in different divisions within IBD, including sector/industry research - so yes, they are supposed to know a lot more than you think
Anyway mate, that's all from me - if you feel Equity Research is the best job for you, go ahead with it -to each his own! :thumbsup:
Thank you so much for the clarifcation....
Indeed this was the best reply on this thread
... have cleared everything about IB... Sir , you are an awesome guy... I would suggest you to read Secret of Federal Reseve... Advanced google search----> Secret of Federal reserve ---> filtype: PDF
You will love this book for sure , and like me you might also start loving equities more than IB(front office)
This book will give you a clear picture of Nathon Mayer de Rothschild Family and John Pierpont Morgan Family and legal money also:cheerio:
And I am pretty sure , you must have seen Wall street and Wall Street - Money never sleeps!!!!
Thanks again for an awesome reply
@echoes 7 & Jamiroquai :
i'm a final year grad in an IIT. I've been offered a role as an Analyst in a leading IB (one from the BB). Last week I gave interviews for IIM A/B/C, and am pretty hopeful of getting converts. What, according to you, would be a better option: joining the IB job and later going for an MBA, or joining the IIMs straightaway (if i get a convert)?
@echoes7: Since you're already from IIM-C, can you please tell me this: During the placements, do freshers stand at a significant disadvantage compared to the work-ex guyz? In other words, are the people who get the best jobs on campus only work-ex guyz, or freshers as well? Is there a significant difference in the average packages that freshers get and work-ex's get?
Jamiroquai :
Hi Jamiroquai.......i have a query.......iam doing my MBA(fin) from NMIMS and have landed up for summers with standard chartered bank.The profile that has been offered to me is analysis of debt profiles of telecom players in india.......does this profile fall under IB? and is Stanchart good for someone looking to make his career as an IB?
Thanks in anticipation
Sorry for the brief hiatus, I was on Spring Break... Could not think of a better way to damage my liver than going to Cancun, Mexico on an unlimited drinkathon :drinking:
echoes7: you're doing a great job. Information-wise, your understanding of the industry is really very good. Thanks for being on the thread with me
For anyone else who hates the field: Fair 'nuff, mate. You're not the only one. I know so many tech guys at school who are not fond of the bankers at all. All I can say is - "hey, pick whatever makes you hard for it!". If it's research, then sure - go ahead and take it. But the mature thing to do would not be to run the whole 'grapes are sour' saga past me. I know tons of guys who were men enough to admit that they wouldn't make it - and who displayed tremendous talents in other fields. Wanna make any guesses as to where Research stands vis-a-vis banking in the most desired jobs? ;-)
And I am not going to be apologetic about it - banking is one of the most kick-ass jobs in the world. It is not for no reason that the brightest in every great business school around the world work to get in. It is not for nothing that our work on deals changes the corporate landscape every time and brings value to the shareholder. It is not for nothing that we're paid like we are. If you have a different opinion, well, good on you!
Jamiroquai :
Hi Jamiroquai.......i have a query.......iam doing my MBA(fin) from NMIMS and have landed up for summers with standard chartered bank.The profile that has been offered to me is analysis of debt profiles of telecom players in india.......does this profile fall under IB? and is Stanchart good for someone looking to make his career as an IB?
Thanks in anticipation
Congrats on your summers. Your work seems to be very closely aligned with an investment banking function altho' I cannot say that it is one, unless your division actually deals with clients for an advisory role for raising debt.
If not, then it qualifies under research / analytics. Btw, Stanchart is really good in asia
@echoes 7 & Jamiroquai :
i'm a final year grad in an IIT. I've been offered a role as an Analyst in a leading IB (one from the BB). Last week I gave interviews for IIM A/B/C, and am pretty hopeful of getting converts. What, according to you, would be a better option: joining the IB job and later going for an MBA, or joining the IIMs straightaway (if i get a convert)?
@echoes7: Since you're already from IIM-C, can you please tell me this: During the placements, do freshers stand at a significant disadvantage compared to the work-ex guyz? In other words, are the people who get the best jobs on campus only work-ex guyz, or freshers as well? Is there a significant difference in the average packages that freshers get and work-ex's get?
Congrats, man - an analyst position is the first step to a career in IB and a fantastic way to get there. The typical path is Analyst (2-3 years) -> B-School -> Associate Track at IB / PE
Hi guys, Can ya suggest me which kinda job will suite me better
My prof is as follows:
BE(Mech)+ICWA(Inter)+NCMP(Level 2)
Probably it wud be
BE(Mech)+ICWA(Final group 1 completed)+NCMP(Level 3) by the time i join MBA this yr(atleast by Summers).
Can ya tell whether IB will be inetersted in this profile? If not, Lemme know which co's (Mostly in Finance sector) will be inetersted?
Can any one suggest excellent books on Investment banking ! which describes the roles and responsibilities...kind of stuff
Looking at the work hours solely , i would never go for this job no matter how much it pays or how good im at numbers, but im thinking of going in this field for a few years atleast to gain some experience after i complete my CA.
@Jamiroquai
Well, sounds like a fun vacation.
I was curious about the differences between sell side and buy side of banks. IBD is buy side from whatever I could find ( correct me if I am wrong ) but with the experience that I have (Prop trading in equity futures) I am more probable to land on the markets side in a BB (atleast thats what similar profile people have been doing)
How flexible is the sell side ? like what are the exit options. Coz sometime down the line I aspire to be a VC or work for a top notch PE firm.
And also, do you think my work ex will be of any help during the summers at one of three iims (hoping i convert atleast one) . Do you think I need to do something to make my profile look fancier and desirable ?
@Jamiroquai
Well, sounds like a fun vacation.
I was curious about the differences between sell side and buy side of banks. IBD is buy side from whatever I could find ( correct me if I am wrong ) but with the experience that I have (Prop trading in equity futures) I am more probable to land on the markets side in a BB (atleast thats what similar profile people have been doing)
How flexible is the sell side ? like what are the exit options. Coz sometime down the line I aspire to be a VC or work for a top notch PE firm.
And also, do you think my work ex will be of any help during the summers at one of three iims (hoping i convert atleast one) . Do you think I need to do something to make my profile look fancier and desirable ?
as per him IBD is fund raising through debt or IPOs or other options.. Whatever you are saying seems to be a PE or Equity research kinda thing... he clearly said IBD is not about equities!!!!
ratter Saysas per him IBD is fund raising through debt or IPOs or other options.. Whatever you are saying seems to be a PE or Equity research kinda thing... he clearly said IBD is not about equities!!!!
I know it is not just about equities 😃 and thats why I need an MBA to move into it.
All I am asking is how useful will my experience will be and whether it might cause a problem somehow.
...
BE(Mech)+ICWA(Inter)+NCMP(Level 2)
...
Can ya tell whether IB will be inetersted in this profile? If not, Lemme know which co's (Mostly in Finance sector) will be inetersted?
ICWA has no relevance to Investment Banking
@Jamiroquai
...
I was curious about the differences between sell side and buy side of banks. IBD is buy side from whatever I could find ( correct me if I am wrong ) but with the experience that I have (Prop trading in equity futures) I am more probable to land on the markets side in a BB (atleast thats what similar profile people have been doing)
How flexible is the sell side ? like what are the exit options. Coz sometime down the line I aspire to be a VC or work for a top notch PE firm.
And also, do you think my work ex will be of any help during the summers at one of three iims (hoping i convert atleast one) . Do you think I need to do something to make my profile look fancier and desirable ?
Great questions:
1. Investment Banking is the Sell Side. We look to sell our products to the buy-side. The Buy-side typically consists of PE shops, MF houses, private warehousing agents, etc
2. When you say market side, I am assuming you're talking about the trading side, which is not IBD.
3. Based on my re-classification of your definition, would you like to rephrase your second paragraph question?
Note: IB is the major stepping stone before you get into PE / VC. Some parts of IB make it easier than others. Leveraged Finance (Product Group) and Financial Sponsors (Coverage Group), for example - are one of the most versatile groups that bring you closest to a transition to PE.
Also, IPOs and issuing of debt come under product groups in investment banks. If you read my initial posts, you will discover what coverage groups do.