may be ur right manasee .. but still its better if they clearly show marking system according to all the criteria so that we can work upon areas where we r lacking ..
What wud u say to the iim's than....we to don't even know what negative markings they use...leave alone other criterias..... AJ
But at least u get a score card in that .. not just yes/no style answer so that u know where u were lacking ...
How does getting the score card help in determining what is their short listing criteria....we just get %iles and %age scores....i have seen lot of people telling that they were expecting good scores but turned out the final score was way below expectation...so how can u explain this on basis on score card....noone for sure can say what is their negatives....and as someone said (including myself) we need to know the selection criteria before hand...how is that helpful when we don't even know what is the -ve marking before exams..knowing -ve marks after result is complete useless as i can't do anything abt it..... AJ
I did not mean being offensive to any short listing procedure ... i wanted to know my performance w.r.t. different criteria so that i can work upon where i lacked, i think this time u get it .. n this thing is fulfilled with score card .. n about expectations of many .. those were mere expecttions based on the answers available n i m sure there can be differences in answers specially in english section .. so leave that ..
Once again restating my point abt essays is that its all in the perception of the reader. See many of us mentioned that they have done some sort of social service....but what mistake i think people wud be committing is trying to put over emphasis on this and person reading would get the impression that the person is trying to influence or bluff.
AJ
feels gus 2 quote txt from my Alma-mater who taught me how 2 use dis option...i second his opinion bout d essays...
talkin bout the weightage given 2 various parameters in the selection process.i can assure u tat max weightage is given for the essays. how else wud u justify a engg fresher with a percentile of 89 in cat nd decent acads...gettin a call for fin in the 1st list??? (for all those who r interstd 2 know im tat lucky engg)
nd its natural tat each1 of us feels tat our essays r decent.now the definition of decent is very subjective.a lot of thought,effort nd time wud h've gone into writin the essays,but then everybody does tat,it's upto us 2 convince d adcom tat v are definitely dif from the remainin applicants,v were given 8 diff situations( d essay que) 2 do tat..
nd talkin bout how much of an influencing factor community service is, lemme tel u,none of my essays had a word bout them. the only place i mentioned it was in the column where they askd for critical details about family,adversities faced,contributions 2 society etc..
hope tat cleard a few queries...
chao
and hopefull we turn up on the right side of the spj panel
and me too mentioned just a line in my essay frm the long 5-6 line para which looked more like bluff than truth.....
someone said rightly....we shud read our essays properly and see whether we cover our strengths in our essays...if no than we have our answers...if yes and still we donot get selected than we need to get it read by a third person get his view and u will definitely get the answer....just to indicate the effort i took.... People who i made to read my essays :- 1) SPJ friend (biggest contributor and me already promised a huge treat to him...and only him for his help and still bothering him abt interviews ) 2) Time counsellor and centre head in Bangalore 3) Parents 4) Room Partner 5) One other friend (an MBA himself) who came to bangalore for some office work... 6) Ex-colleague For this entire thing i took a months time for finalising the essay....and to top this i prepared 3 rough drafts to make sure my handwritting comes in a way that the reader can read thru it without strain and infact used every space available to put my point....u see i had lots to put in questions like team work, values etc (purely because of my gud work ex)....and infact have not put a word in the acads achievement column....
And now i am pleased that all the efforts which all these above people including myself have put in going thru my boring essays have paid off...
and going by my feeling abt my own preparation of iim's i was not 100% confident abt it so made doubly sure that SPJ does not give me a miss by makiing sure that i atleast fill their form to my own satisfaction.
Someone on this forum said iim's don't lose their credibility because there is no transparency. No offense to the IIM's but the one and only reason that they are not internationally competitive is cos they have non-transparent selection procedures.
Who told u so.... wht transparency do u require buddy... : they r now even declaring the CAT scores & officialy releasing the CAT paper... I hope tomoorow u will ask them to give u the paper before the exam so you can choose the Qs u like...
Take the Stanfords, Harvards and Whartons. Why are the accorded with world recognition?? Because the students that apply there know exactly on what basis the adcom will make a decision on their selection.
Again, who told u so ?? (i'm sure u have heard this from someone)... do H/W/S tell u wht weightages they give for diff parameters... no man... check out Linda's advice on BusinessWeek Bschool forums & increase ur knowledge.... all they say is last year they selected X% enggs, Y%doctors, Z% CAs.... A% came from Asia, B% came from EU, C% came from middle east... P% have >5yrs workex, Q% have >3 yr work ex... etc.. i can go on for another 10 parameters like %age of females in class... range of GMAT scores, no of schols given.... etc...
Are all these not told to us by most of the B schools in india (Atleast top 10 do tht)...
Student selection-rejection ratio in a US-Bschool is around 1:10 whereas in indian B-schools it's 1:100 leading to smaller interaction between student n adcom, and more confusion...
No school will ever comeup with the weightage they give to various selection parameters for the following reasons: 1. These weightage keep on changing every year depending on the profile of students in the previous year & feedback from industry. 2. The beauty of a face does not always lie in the beauty of eyes/nose/lips individually but in the overall appearance. Similiarly the weight of an application may not always lie in the acads, work-ex, essays but in the overall application. try to understand this...
The only reason that the IIM's have not lost their credibility is because there is such fierce competition among the best brains in India to get in. And with the cream of students in India and the NO. of yrs that they've been around and obviously famous alumni around, there is no reason that the school would receive any flak in India for it's non-transparent procedures.
But look at it from an international standing and you will be able to evaluate for yourself. proof lies in the fact that increasing no. of iim students go for a second mba degree to a school abroad! Ever thought why? Just my two cents.
:!: :!: H/W/S 'njoi such a brand name because they are placed in a country where the best n most succesful MNC of the world are present. These colleges are at an advantage as they have a better industry interface & they do charge a hefty premium for that... In India ISB & GLIM are trying to do the same thing (though GLIM has not been succesful till now) & are charging 15 lakhs for it ... it has nothing to do with the transparency in admission process man...
I don't understand wht xtra do u want... u want them to tell the exact recipe of the cake & the exact process how to bake the cake & the machine where to bake the cake & get u the customers who will buy the cake ... then whts so special abt u... anyone can bake n sell cakes... U aspire to b a mgr .. as a prospective MBA student, try to understand wht they want (u can even ask them but don't demand it)
Regd SPJ process, guys try to figure out wht u lacked rather than blaming SP for not calling u... re-read ur apps... did anyone of u try to read someone's essay who got a call... i read around 5 of them n to my amazement most of them had written fairly small & to-the-pt answers... If u say "initiative" is ur strong pt, it shud b reflected in ur essays... if u say u r good teamplayer, it shud b there in ur application.... i feel it's imp that v all shud learn from our failures n try to figure out wht all is reqd while applying next yr.... BOL to u all n wish me BOL for my int... :)
Brilliantly put... this ought to silence the...i have 99.xx "decent essays" ..why din they call me crowd.Also amazed at how easily people make vast generalizations...
No offense to the IIM's but the one and only reason that they are not internationally competitive is cos they have non-transparent selection procedures.
just wanted to tell u all that i didn't make it. CAT score = 98.65%le no work ex, not that good acads, i can't and won't say anything about the essays. hadn't applied to mdi or nitie. didn't get calls from the iim's. i'm now working at a CAT coaching center as course content developer. guys, any advice for next year?, esp from those who r already in spj or any other b-school. should i apply to spj next year?
just wanted to tell u all that i didn't make it. CAT score = 98.65%le no work ex, not that good acads, i can't and won't say anything about the essays. hadn't applied to mdi or nitie. didn't get calls from the iim's. i'm now working at a CAT coaching center as course content developer. guys, any advice for next year?, esp from those who r already in spj or any other b-school. should i apply to spj next year?
Why do u feel u shud not apply to spj...i wud say apply to nitie and mdi as well... AJ
For those interested my vitals are : CAT : 97.11 (But a Pathetic 63%ile in Eng) BE (CS) : 78 XII : 87 X : 87 Working as a Consultant for the last 7 months.
My guess is SPJAIN's selecttion criterion for calls is :
Work ex - 20% Cat Score - 20% Acads - 20% Essays - 40 %
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So now it is final...me no call from SPJian... writing was on the wall in the 1st list itself but now !!! This is my profile:- CAT-99.77(tot) Di-89 VA-99.2X QA-99.7X 10-89(CBSE) 12-91(CBSE) ENGINEERING-79.55 till now(i am among toppers of my college NIT Nagpur so that is quite decent--me hope so!!) pata nahin kya chaiye tha ???? essays????????? Dream insti main se ek tha!!!!! chalo appan chalde ne(mods ne warning de hai jyada post karne ki!!) Puneet
hi cat 95.69 % was not hoping for the sky but surely no call from SP Anyone here knows about MICA etc? good essays (my perception) good acads ssc 85% hsc 76%(commerce) tybcom 80% mcom 66% work-ex 33 months -marketing i dont know wht else to do... cant even think of studying another year.family and peer pressure to start earning big!!! sorry to crib here...ALL THOSE WHO GOT IN CONGRATS AND BEST OF LUCK... bugs
For those interested my vitals are : CAT : 97.11 (But a Pathetic 63%ile in Eng) BE (CS) : 78 XII : 87 X : 87 Working as a Consultant for the last 7 months.
My guess is SPJAIN's selecttion criterion for calls is :
Work ex - 20% Cat Score - 20% Acads - 20% Essays - 40 %
Cheers Akshat
i would more or less agree with these figures .... i too think essays hold much importance for SPJ ....
Who told u so.... wht transparency do u require buddy... : they r now even declaring the CAT scores & officialy releasing the CAT paper... I hope tomoorow u will ask them to give u the paper before the exam so you can choose the Qs u like...
The transparency required is not in terms of the paper but in terms of the selection of students and how when two ppl have exactly similar profiles..acads, cat score, work-ex are differentiated between. One gets a call and the other doesn't! You can check the iim calls thread if you like and will find several such cases(especially in case of IIMB).
The form that we fill for cat does not even ask for the company you work for!!How would they know if i've had seven yrs work ex in the back alley of my house or in a MNC. Interview calls are made before they can find this out. Right?
do H/W/S tell u wht weightages they give for diff parameters... no man... check out Linda's advice on BusinessWeek Bschool forums & increase ur knowledge.... all they say is last year they selected X% enggs, Y%doctors, Z% CAs.... A% came from Asia, B% came from EU, C% came from middle east... P% have >5yrs workex, Q% have >3 yr work ex... etc.. i can go on for another 10 parameters like %age of females in class... range of GMAT scores, no of schols given.... etc...
Are all these not told to us by most of the B schools in india (Atleast top 10 do tht)...
Excuse me but i do not think the IIM's have ever told us about the avg score that each category of students picked have got. They give a call based solely on CAT because if they considered acads and work-ex to be important!!!...they would have atleast bothered to ask which university a candidate was from and where they've worked at!!
After all there is a difference between Infosys and some nukkad-galli tech co. Which...surprise..surprise is not even worth asking according to them!!
No school will ever comeup with the weightage they give to various selection parameters for the following reasons: 1. These weightage keep on changing every year depending on the profile of students in the previous year & feedback from industry. 2. The beauty of a face does not always lie in the beauty of eyes/nose/lips individually but in the overall appearance. Similiarly the weight of an application may not always lie in the acads, work-ex, essays but in the overall application. try to understand this...
:!: My my aren't we contradicting ourselves here. I've gone to the business week forums too and i think the need to increase ur knowledge seems to be more paramount than mine!! The business schools there are popular the world over because of their transparency. If you go to the famed business week forums that you talk of! you'l find FT rankings of the 50 best B-schools in the world. Look for the IIM's! Ahem! unfortunately you'l be at a loss cos'!! they don figure in the list!! Guess what? One of the most important criteria for the high ranking of these schools is their transparency in selecting students. Ever heard of IIM's asking for recos or even a personal statement of goals before the calls come out??
If beauty lies in overall appearance, how come the IIM's don't look at all things mentioned above???? : : :
More later. Shall quote business week forums on some more of the comments you made since they seem to be your favourite. BOL to you definitely. All seems to be right in your world. Im happy for you. :!:
Ever heard of IIM's asking for recos or even a personal statement of goals before the calls come out??
They do ask for it for the intrvws. Whats wrong is selection via CAT score? Yes, irregularities do exist though, esp this time.
Yup they do ask for it after the interview calls come out but thats when the selection is over and done with and half of the expectant and deserving junta is rejected :!:
whooops!!!! soooo many posts in defence and against the selection criteria of SPJ!!! Guys....juss chillax...theres no use giving tooo much importance to SPJ...coz it does not deserve it....there are many instis way better than SPJ...hope that you get into those "transparent and fair" B-Schools.
_____________________________________________________________ Good Essays make Good Writers and NOT Good Managers
Ya I know its just another institute and not getting a call from it can't be the end of life....
CAT score -98 %ile
X - 84 XII - 86 B-tech REC (NIT) - 74
2 yrs work ex in big SW firms ....but still after seeing the posts in this forum i wasn't expecting any call and as expected didn't get it..
so the only factor where i cud have missed out on can be essays !! if i'm right, till 3-4 years back the emphasis on essays was not as much as its now, and its only in the last 2-3 years that they have started giving so much emphasis on essays. And I feel they'll soon realize their mistake. I'm sure by the next year, we can definitely expect some advertisements on Net or newspapers reading something like this-
" 100 Rs. mein Sp Jain ke Essay likhvayein !! Call na aane pe paise vapis"
Actually they expect everybody to write some similar kind of socially senti stuff and sooner or later some experts are going to master the technique of writing the "perfect" essays. Many people wud have have taken the help of some gurus in this regard this year also and wud have got thru.
If they want to emphasise so much on essays, better conduct a 2 hr exam and ask us to write some essays.
Ya I know its just another institute and not getting a call from it can't be the end of life....
CAT score -98 %ile
X - 84 XII - 86 B-tech REC (NIT) - 74
2 yrs work ex in big SW firms ....but still after seeing the posts in this forum i wasn't expecting any call and as expected didn't get it..
so the only factor where i cud have missed out on can be essays !! if i'm right, till 3-4 years back the emphasis on essays was not as much as its now, and its only in the last 2-3 years that they have started giving so much emphasis on essays. And I feel they'll soon realize their mistake.
Whats the mistake in this....please explain...they have done it as u said for last 2-3 years and faced no problems so why wud u think they have done some mistakes....
I'm sure by the next year, we can definitely expect some advertisements on Net or newspapers reading something like this-
" 100 Rs. mein Sp Jain ke Essay likhvayein !! Call na aane pe paise vapis"
Great I am looking forward to seeing ur name as a director of this company...man no hard feelings those profs have tons of experience and they can catch a lie/bluff in a split second....
Actually they expect everybody to write some similar kind of socially senti stuff and sooner or later some experts are going to master the technique of writing the "perfect" essays. Many people wud have have taken the help of some gurus in this regard this year also and wud have got thru.
If they want to emphasise so much on essays, better conduct a 2 hr exam and ask us to write some essays.
Once again they are too smart to catch a lie....who said u need to write some sort of socially senti stuff...none of their answers required that....except the ones where they asked abt ur parents contri to society and don't think that answer alone decided the fate.... There are lots of people who have nothing to so on social activity...and they still made it.... Yes many wud have taken help of gurus...but it depends on what sort of help...i personally took help frm friends and others to know if i can improve on my content does that mean cheating or any thing i don't think so....if u ask someone else to write instead of u....u will be the first one to realize that how difficult it is to defend what someone else has written for you....if u don't think so than try it and see....
Man how long will people take to master writting perfect answers....somewhere earlier in the thread i read some one saying he repeated his answers frm last year as he had a call that time but sadly he does not have a call this time....i think u got the point i am trying to make here......
Let me first of all mention that I don't have an SPJain call. And to those of you who have got calls, this post may seem to be a case of sour grapes.
But, what Varun Sood has written seems perfectly logical to me. I feel that this is what has happened this year.
I personally know of a couple of people who have had their essays written by someone else and got calls.
As ajain says , the Professors can easily point out lies. Yes they can, but at what stage : obviously at the GD/PI stage only. But what about the guys who had written the truth about themselves in the essay forms but didn't get calls as they got rejected in favour of people who wrote lies.(I am not calling all SPJain call getters liars, only those who lied their way to calls and/or had their essays ghost-written).
And don't you think that the case of the person who got calls last year and used the same essays this year but did not get calls, only explains the arbitrariness of the whole selection process. Suddenly all the good qualities of that person which were appreciated by SPJain last year, have become unwanted qualities this year?
This whole spjain admission business has become one where only people who have sources in SPJain and can ask them what kind of answers to write can get calls. What about all those folks who have no 'friends' to advise them on their essays? Is it their fault?
I also agree with varun sood's suggestion that if they really want essays then they should have them written in a 2 hr essay exam than have this process where they give 2 months to write essays where even the least socially networked guy can get in touch with some essay writing 'experts', if not get whole essays off the web. Why should such people be selected while those writing honest essays are rejected because their essays were not impressive enough.
How can such a subjective assessment of a candidate's qualities of being a future manager be the correct way to pick out prospective students.
Even the top schools in the USA don't pick out students solely on the basis of the students essays. They also have the GMAT test which more or less gives them an idea of the students' intelligence.
However, let me add here that I am not rigid. I am open to criticism of my post. Please do correct me if I am wrong on any of these points.
How can such a subjective assessment of a candidate's qualities of being a future manager be the correct way to pick out prospective students.
1)Wht do u think is the objective way to assess a persons suitability to a management course and also towards an institute's specific views towards a management course?Managenent is in itself a very subjective topic. 2)Can u suggest a perfect system for the selection process?Lets be realistic here..every process has its own inconsistencies,drawbacks etc..doesnt mean that its always wrong. 3)AFAIK GMAT scores are only one of the aspects involved in the selection to intnational b-schools..Lots of subjective assemssment includnig essays,reccos happen there too..The systems success is based on the belief that the people doing the recruiting (xperienced individuals) can find inconsistencies/flaws in these essays etc.(they'd hv enuff xperience to spot a readymadeessay) and even if some people bluff their way thru they will be caught in the interviews..SPJAIN is basically trying to emulate the same.Is there a problem that Profs from spjain cant do wht profs from foreign schools can do?? 4)Lots of people who write essays on their own dont get calls-Lots who do get calls.Personally know lots of people who got essays written in consultation with coaching institutes etc..who havent.So dont jump into conclusions that all who write honest essays are at a disadvantage.. I wrote my own essays last time no calls.Again this time i got called.Do I thnk i wrote more thought out answers this time?YES. Bottomline:Ur welcome to criticize any process,but as long as u cant come up with a better one lets accept tht every process has its own advantages/weaknesses and give the benefit of the doubt to the selection panel's abilities. added:If one is not willing to have ne faith in a system then probly there is no point trying to be part of it too. andy.
Actually they expect everybody to write some similar kind of socially senti stuff and sooner or later some experts are going to master the technique of writing the "perfect" essays. Many people wud have have taken the help of some gurus in this regard this year also and wud have got thru.
There is not a single place in the app form where I had mentioned anything about serving a social cause. And I had left the area blank, where we are needed to elaborate on adverisites faced. All I can say about my essays are, they were all true experiences, and I felt the application form was consistent the essays reflected my strengths. And I just consulted 2 friends No essay experts.
😞 😞 😞 well i read the posts here n couldnot agree more...the SPJ system is indeed dubious..the essays played the larger role n here subjectivity has too much of scope for manipulations...also there 1 more observation
regarding the freshers at SPJ...I dont think they r at all interested in freshers ..then y do they invite applications!! N regarding the information on which calls r made out to freshers!!(i know a guy who has a call n who wrote achievement as university topper..well he was within top5 but theres no document watsoever to prove this...it has to be believed by the word of mouth!!) (this guy has a call at 93%ile) isnt it too low for a fresher???
even i have a 2nd rank in university ...n i wrote it ...n iam not called !! they wanted just the toppers(hopefully it means rank 1 only!!) some transperency is seriously needed.... n ajain ..stop defending SPJ just for the heck of it...better prepare for the interview..or else u wld be found shouting the loudest against the system at SPJ(no offense intended but it appears as SPJ ppl hv appointed u as to defend them )
wht transparency do u require buddy... 
: they r now even declaring the CAT scores & officialy releasing the CAT paper... I hope tomoorow u will ask them to give u the paper before the exam so you can choose the Qs u like... 
(this guy has a call at 93%ile)
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