SP jain calls out

MBA
601
Let me first of all mention that I don't have an SPJain call.
And to those of you who have got calls, this post may seem to be a case of sour grapes.

But, what Varun Sood has written seems perfectly logical to me.
I feel that this is what has happened this year.

I personally know of a couple of people who have had their essays written by someone else and got calls.

As ajain says , the Professors can easily point out lies.
Yes they can, but at what stage : obviously at the GD/PI stage only.
But what about the guys who had written the truth about themselves in the essay forms but didn't get calls as they got rejected in favour of people who wrote lies.(I am not calling all SPJain call getters liars, only those who lied their way to calls and/or had their essays ghost-written).

And don't you think that the case of the person who got calls last year and used the same essays this year but did not get calls, only explains the arbitrariness of the whole selection process.
Suddenly all the good qualities of that person which were appreciated by SPJain last year, have become unwanted qualities this year?


This whole spjain admission business has become one where only people who have sources in SPJain and can ask them what kind of answers to write can get calls.
What about all those folks who have no 'friends' to advise them on their essays? Is it their fault?

I also agree with varun sood's suggestion that if they really want essays then they should have them written in a 2 hr essay exam than have this process where they give 2 months to write essays where even the least socially networked guy can get in touch with some essay writing 'experts', if not get whole essays off the web.
Why should such people be selected while those writing honest essays are rejected because their essays were not impressive enough.

How can such a subjective assessment of a candidate's qualities of being a future manager be the correct way to pick out prospective students.

Even the top schools in the USA don't pick out students solely on the basis of the students essays.
They also have the GMAT test which more or less gives them an idea of the students' intelligence.


However, let me add here that I am not rigid. I am open to criticism of my post. Please do correct me if I am wrong on any of these points.


What wud be the percentage of people who wud be lying....if thats too high than yes i support u that they need to look into the process otherwise they donot have much reason to do so.
A person who can convince the panel that he/she is not lying even after not giving the correct facts is genious because i say once again that the panel is way too smart to get fooled. Yes there will be aberrations and even me not happy abt it.....but don't think that wud be many....

How do u judge whether the person is honest or not....yes reading essays wud not help in that...but than can i say for sure that u wud have written essays honestly..just because u say so....see...my point here is they wud not be knowing people personally so they wud have to assume whatever is written on forms in most of the cases is true.....in yours and my case as well.

Yes even the top schools donot pick students on essays...but essays form a critical part of selection process. Many top b-schools abroad have interviews with the candidates...so getting a high GMAT score also doesnot qualify u for getting the harvard or stanford correct me if i am wrong....
Plus SPJ does give out pre cat calls...but the final decision also depends on CAT scores and as far as my knowledge goes...the final admit calls are given only after cat scores are announced...

There will be one-off case with 70-80%ile finally making it thru...but what information i have they were exceptional studs...in accads or sports.

Good qualities last year became unwanted this year is not the right way of putting it....there were others who wud have had exceptional qualities this year...me donot have anything exceptional...but surely others do have...so that got more weightage than what the same essay wud have got last year......Let me ask u a simple question....98%ile wud have got couple of iim calls last year but does that mean he/she wud get the calls this year as well...isn't that more arbit...people with 99 something also donot have all 6 calls isn't that arbit...

Essays are read by humans....and i am damn sure that no-one will have the same judgement abt the essays..infact the same person wud have different view abt the essays if he/she reads them after one year..so here is another reason why call last year and no calls this year....

I have a call frm spj but that does not mean i am trying to defend their process or so....just putting my point of view.....i also want more openess frm b-schools...not just frm spj...but frm iims themselves...

knowing people frm spj is not necessary as i know some who donot know anyone frm spj and got calls....and if that had been the criteria than many here on pg wud have got calls as in some way or other everyone knows someone frm spj...

What is important is try and establish links between ur essays and the strengths u mention....like u mention initiative and don't give example for it....in some of the questions than how wud they be convinced abt ur strengths....connection between ur interests...and strengths.....

If u mention strength as team work and ur team work answer looks hollow than there itself u get some -ve points....i hope u got what i am trying to point out....

AJ
602

In response to MrAnderson

Wht do u think is the objective way to assess a persons suitability to a management course and also towards an institute's specific views towards a management course?Managenent is in itself a very subjective topic.


I believe that an objective method of assessment is one where one person's or a group of person's opinion of an essay does not decide whether a person is selected or not.

When a subjective assessment is used, it is obvious that many secondary aspects like tone,wording,hand writing, presentation, etc are bound to affect the perception that is formed in the adcom's mind about the candidate.
How can it be otherwise?

Lots of people who write essays on their own dont get calls-Lots who do get calls.Personally know lots of people who got essays written in consultation with coaching institutes etc..who havent.So dont jump into conclusions that all who write honest essays are at a disadvantage..

if you read my post I have written that I also agree that all the people who lie in the essays get rejected at the next stage.
But don't you think that because of them a lot of people with essays written by themselves are getting rejected at the first stage itslef while the ghost-written essay guys are blocking their entry into the second stage.

As varun sood says that there are people on the net who will write essays for you.On the net there are numerous sites which write professional quality essays for you. What is to say that this trend is not going to start out in India too.

Why, even on PG I have seen so many people posting their SOPs asking for it to be rewritten by some more experienced people.




AFAIK GMAT scores are only one of the aspects involved in the selection to intnational b-schools..Lots of subjective assemssment includnig essays,reccos happen there too..The systems success is based on the belief that the people doing the recruiting (xperienced individuals) can find inconsistencies/flaws in these essays etc.(they'd hv enuff xperience to spot a readymadeessay) and even if some people bluff their way thru they will be caught in the interviews..SPJAIN is basically trying to emulate the same.Is there a problem that Profs from spjain cant do wht profs from foreign schools can do??


How can you solely rely on the essays to select/reject people.
Are quantitative ability,logical reasoning, etc not necessary skills for a manager who is going to be dealing with huge nos and figures?
They may not be the only skills, but I am sure you would agree that they are necessary skills.

SPJain is trying to be like Harvard/Wharton, etc. But, it is modifying their process in such a way that some crucial skills are being overlooked.

Ur welcome to criticize any process,but as long as u cant come up with a better one lets accept tht every process has its own advantages/weaknesses and give the benefit of the doubt to the selection panel's abilities.
added:If one is not willing to have ne faith in a system then probly there is no point trying to be part of it too.



So all that I am trying to say that is SPJain should adopt a process that is more faithful to that followed by the foreign universities.
All of you would agree that taking GD/PI for 20k people is not feasible.
You would however agree that essays + CAT scores may be a better way to select people.
Don't you think that this process is loaded against all the people from small town India or should I say Bharat.
I have personally come across many such youth in my college days, who have been brought up thinking that there is nothing else in life but academics.
Their resumes look blank, as they have nothing but academics in their CV. Needless to say SPJain does not consider such people worthy of entry into their institution. The scales are loaded against them. They neither have access to essay-writers. Nor have they much but academics on their resume.
A process which considers both IQ and EQ would at least give them a chance to compete.

That is my humble suggestion.
As always I am open to criticism.
603
Plus SPJ does give out pre cat calls...but the final decision also depends on CAT scores and as far as my knowledge goes...the final admit calls are given only after cat scores are announced...


That appears to be more a formality than anything else.
604


ajain ..stop defending SPJ just for the heck of it...better prepare for the interview..or else u wld be found shouting the loudest against the system at SPJ(no offense intended but it appears as SPJ ppl hv appointed u as to defend them )


Probably instead of criticisizing SPJ or its process and me as well if u had put ur energy in preparing a good essay u wud have probably got the call......

I have not been appointed by spj or anyone and me not even in spj till now...what i put was my opinion...if u can't take it than leave it....this is a democratic society and people have rights to put their opinion as u have put.

FYI...i am already preparing gor GI by trying to put my view points here....isn't it....apart frm the normal preparation i am already doing...

If i defend i do just for the heck of it and if i don't (read oppose) that means i am a case of sour grapes....so u suggest what shud people with calls do....

AJ
605

The transparency required is not in terms of the paper but in terms of the selection of students and how when two ppl have exactly similar profiles..acads, cat score, work-ex are differentiated between. One gets a call and the other doesn't! You can check the iim calls thread if you like and will find several such cases(especially in case of IIMB).

There's something called acads/grad degree/grad univ... each of these have a weightage b4 placing a final call... a person from IIT bombay will always b given a higher weightage than a person from BU... n similiarly a person with 80% in mech will b given more weightage than a person with 80% in electronics...


The form that we fill for cat does not even ask for the company you work for!!How would they know if i've had seven yrs work ex in the back alley of my house or in a MNC. Interview calls are made before they can find this out. Right?

May b work-ex is not a major criteria in IIMs (though IIMs do ask if u are currently working or not)...



Excuse me but i do not think the IIM's have ever told us about the avg score that each category of students picked have got. They give a call based solely on CAT because if they considered acads and work-ex to be important!!!...they would have atleast bothered to ask which university a candidate was from and where they've worked at!!

they do ask ...

After all there is a difference between Infosys and some nukkad-galli tech co. Which...surprise..surprise is not even worth asking according to them!!

boss it's wht u have retained/gained after working at infosys or nukkad-chaap company tht matters... though a person from infy won't b grilled much on values or type of workex bcoz that's where brand name helps whereas a nukkad chapp company ka worker may have to provide proper details of his workex during the interview...


:!: My my aren't we contradicting ourselves here. I've gone to the business week forums too and i think the need to increase ur knowledge seems to be more paramount than mine!! The business schools there are popular the world over because of their transparency. If you go to the famed business week forums that you talk of! you'l find FT rankings of the 50 best B-schools in the world. Look for the IIM's! Ahem! unfortunately you'l be at a loss cos'!! they don figure in the list!! Guess what? One of the most important criteria for the high ranking of these schools is their transparency in selecting students. Ever heard of IIM's asking for recos or even a personal statement of goals before the calls come out??

If beauty lies in overall appearance, how come the IIM's don't look at all things mentioned above???? : : :

More later. Shall quote business week forums on some more of the comments you made since they seem to be your favourite. BOL to you
definitely. All seems to be right in your world. Im happy for you. :!:


:) i really pity u ... not for the ur comments but for ur ignorance (well all of us are ignorant abt many things in this world including me but than don't just make comments without understanding things)... try to think from a broader perspective... the most imp factor in a college is its pedagogy & not admission process ....
chk http://www.rediff.com/money/2004/oct/18iim.htm
http://www.economist.com/globalExecutive/education/printerFriendly.cfm?story_id=1164429
http://www.imahal.com/mentor/archives/d001/q000313.htm

anyway. i'm sure u won't b convinced by these & i don't have enough time to enlighten u... 'njoi!
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sorry about sending so many posts on the same topic, but I came across the posts I am quoting right now only after I had already made my earlier posts.

Good qualities last year became unwanted this year is not the right way of putting it....there were others who wud have had exceptional qualities this year...me donot have anything exceptional...but surely others do have...so that got more weightage than what the same essay wud have got last year......Let me ask u a simple question....98%ile wud have got couple of iim calls last year but does that mean he/she wud get the calls this year as well...isn't that more arbit...people with 99 something also donot have all 6 calls isn't that arbit...


I myself have 98.2%ile and I was equally shocked when I found out that while last year 98%ile could have fetched at least one call, this year it was to no avail.
But as you are aware this year there has been a marked increase in the no of people taking the CAT.
So if someone with 98.5%ile was ranked 1000 last year, maybe this year a 98.8%ile guy is 1000 rank.

Hence the difference in calls for people with 98%ile last year and this year.



Essays are read by humans....and i am damn sure that no-one will have the same judgement abt the essays..infact the same person wud have different view abt the essays if he/she reads them after one year..so here is another reason why call last year and no calls this year....


Don't you think that just this fact is enough to seriously consider changing the whole process. The subjective nature of the whole process.
It is totally dependent on the current mental state of the assessor.
607

I myself have 98.2%ile and I was equally shocked when I found out that while last year 98%ile could have fetched at least one call, this year it was to no avail.
But as you are aware this year there has been a marked increase in the no of people taking the CAT.
So if someone with 98.5%ile was ranked 1000 last year, maybe this year a 98.8%ile guy is 1000 rank.

Hence the difference in calls for people with 98%ile last year and this year.


I think u got a partial reason for why not many received calls frm spj....
And hence the difference in the calls SPJ issued...there are many with higher %iles as well so not all high %iles got calls and this is a sad part of their process.


Don't you think that just this fact is enough to seriously consider changing the whole process. The subjective nature of the whole process.
It is totally dependent on the current mental state of the assessor.


Right and I can't debate much on this...but as someone said in the iim thread that since they are getting the right people thru their process they are continuing with this..and so spj wud also be feeling the same..and as u urself mentioned that these essays thing started only recently...so it means that they still eveolving the process to make it more full proof isn't it....every change requires some time to give fruits..so we people don't have much choice but to wait and hope that the change bears fruits quickly.


For information of others :-

This is the text frm spj....:-

The selection criteria for calling candidates for interviews is based on multiple factors like:

Past academic performance.
Quality and content of the essays in the application form
Work experience, IF ANY, in terms of job content and relevance to the specialization opted
Extra curricular activities, other interests and accomplishments
CAT score
CAT is NOT the only criterion used by SPJIMR for admission eligibility and there is no cutoff score for CAT scores used by SPJIMR.

A high CAT score does not guarantee a short-listing for a candidate for an interview. It is quite possible that a candidate, despite having scored very high in his/her CAT exams may not be called for interview if he/she is found to have low academic scores in his/her undergraduate studies or essays devoid of meaningful content.

See clearly SPJ has stated that they donot give lot of weight to cat scores...plus they have mentioned some points which they considered while short listing....and i don't think they cud quantify the criteria....

As for freshers....what i have seen is only in IM and OR they prefer work ex...in finance i know nearly the entire batch is fresher and around 50-60% batch in mktg is fresher.....

AJ
608

I am not going to comment about what I think abt SPJ's calling criteria and all that.

I took about one to one and a half hr to fill up the essays part. I didn't get it checked by anyone anywhere and I submitted the app online. I think its very hard to write essays keeping the adcom in mind and frankly I don't think one should, either. All you should do is see if you can state ur answers honestly and see if you can align it to the school's stated vision/objective wherever applicable.

609


Probably instead of criticisizing SPJ or its process and me as well if u had put ur energy in preparing a good essay u wud have probably got the call......


AJ Pal
i think all tis is going too far there is no point in arguing tryng to be ojective when we all agree essays are wholly subjective.
Personally I feel a person who takes a month to write answers to 6 questions about himself after consulting half a dozen well wishers, oughta get a call after all the effort put in.
I wrote mine in 1 hour and yeah i va no regrets cos i did not put in the necessary efforts.
Enjoy ur call
ATB for SPJ
Duke
610


Probably instead of criticisizing SPJ or its process and me as well if u had put ur energy in preparing a good essay u wud have probably got the call......


AJ Pal
i think all tis is going too far there is no point in arguing tryng to be ojective when we all agree essays are wholly subjective.
Personally I feel a person who takes a month to write answers to 6 questions about himself after consulting half a dozen well wishers, oughta get a call after all the effort put in.
I wrote mine in 1 hour and yeah i va no regrets cos i did not put in the necessary efforts.
Enjoy ur call
ATB for SPJ
Duke


I don't want to fight with u on this....i wanted to make sure that i have the essays which have the right stuff in....if people wrote essays in an hour and got call...so be it...i am happy that my effort paid off...and it is worth that effort....if i can actually make it thru.....And i put that much effort because my CAT preparation was not going great guns and wanted to ensure that i loose out because of this....and took that long because i work odd hours...and finding time out of it is very difficult for me....

BTW we are just having a discussion where people are exchanging their view points.....
AJ
611
I am not going to comment about what I think abt SPJ's calling criteria and all that.

I took about one to one and a half hr to fill up the essays part. I didn't get it checked by anyone anywhere and I submitted the app online. I think its very hard to write essays keeping the adcom in mind and frankly I don't think one should, either. All you should do is see if you can state ur answers honestly and see if you can align it to the school's stated vision/objective wherever applicable.


I completely agree with u ....no matter how much time u put 1 min or 1 month as in my case....but this is what is necessary.

Why i took so much time....
When they give me a month to prepare a good essay than why not i utilize it...i never said people to utilize the time they provided...
AJ
612
I am not going to comment about what I think abt SPJ's calling criteria and all that.

I took about one to one and a half hr to fill up the essays part. I didn't get it checked by anyone anywhere and I submitted the app online. I think its very hard to write essays keeping the adcom in mind and frankly I don't think one should, either. All you should do is see if you can state ur answers honestly and see if you can align it to the school's stated vision/objective wherever applicable.


I completely agree with u ....no matter how much time u put 1 min or 1 month as in my case....but this is what is necessary.

Why i took so much time....
When they give me a month to prepare a good essay than why not i utilize it...i never said people to utilize the time they provided...
AJ


AJ,

Yes, my point was that we should not try to think how and what the adcom prefers to read. Our job is not to second-guess them. Our work is to write our essays truthfully and see to what extent we can get it to reflect our experiences completely.

Regarding the time taken, I did it in a rushed manner. I too would have preferred longer, a month would have been nice actually. And I think I could have written better essays - same answers but better written - though I am happy with how things have worked out.
613

I myself have 98.2%ile and I was equally shocked when I found out that while last year 98%ile could have fetched at least one call, this year it was to no avail.


Don't you think that just this fact is enough to seriously consider changing the whole process. The subjective nature of the whole process.
It is totally dependent on the current mental state of the assessor.


I thnk i can understand the reasn for a bulk of ur grouse against spjain process...u just cant accept the fact that uve scored 98+ and havent got a call..dont think uve responded to my reply well too...
U seem to be constantly stuck with the subjective part of it...get real man..
Management is as subjective a topic as it gets...
if u think management is all about number crunching uve got it wrong...
for all i know u might be 99.99 in cat...but when in a real crunch situation ur performance might not reflect that...Thats y the institutes try to assess u subjectively...and different institutes look at it differently..as ajian has pointed out SPJain clearly mentions that CAT is just one of the criteria for selection and i think its very laudable of an institute tht does not toe the line of the rest and has a different point of view with respect to selection.Now they trust their committee to pick out the best in the lot who fit their view of looking at things...if u cannot trust their judgement then y try to be part of it...y apply itself..and u seem to be under the impression tht foreign instis just care abt GMAT scores...thts a myth..why do u think people pay big money to get their essays prim and proper??
Again if u feel the system has let u down due to its subjectivity suggest an objective mechanism....
top 150 cat scores who applies will get admission..no interviews(subjective ..right?) nothing...tht objective enuff???
andy.
614

Well is it a case of sour grapes or not? I am one among the 98+ percentilers not ending up with an SPJain call. Good Acads - i.e 90 odd in X and X11 and 80 odd in engineering. Decent co-curriculars and honest essays-- when I say decent I mean to say that I went over the questions and answered them honestly bringing out those points that any B-School will be looking for -- leadership qualities, a significant reason to pursue an MBA degree, and a committment to ethics ( SPJain specific), and the ability to adapt and get along with people.

So when I do not end up with a call what do i say ? Fine maybe theyhave found better people to fit the bill. No sour grapes....no tears.

Then I find that tonnes of people with inferior percentiles, inferior academics and less work ex ( I have one year work ex) getting a call then am I justified in questioning the selection process. I do believe that I have a very evident right to do so.

Regarding essays--- People peopl, whom are we kidding. It takes years to get to know a person....to learn what his thought process is and whether he is a genuine guy or not. The question is not whether people lie in the essays or not , rather the fact is that they have an oppurtunity to lie and some will do so. All os us know that we tend to exagerrate on a few points when we write the essays. Some lucky souls have contacts at the respective B-School anf write the stuff the people are looking fir.
Please do not tell me that the SPJain faculty is filled with Demi gods who can envisage the person's traits through his essays, they can be fooled too.

You ask me to come up with an alternative procees. Well the answer is obvious. The importance attached to essays should be lessened and even if they are considered they should be a part of the evalutation process in case of close clinchers and during the GD/PI process. The difference between a 98 percentiler and a 80 percentiler is huge in terms of numbers and if the SPJain guyz think that they are able to bullshit the numbers and judge who the more deserving candidate is......well thats crappy aint it.

I do not know the reason that they do this but doesnt it look like that they stand to benfit from shrouding the entire selection process in a mystery blanket. They cant tell us the exact selection procedure thats understood. But it shouldnt be as unpredictable as the current one. They probably want to feel good by convincing themselves that they can look beyond the percentiles and find the hidden Gems.

Anywayz gud luk to the guyz with calls......the ones who dint......try the same essays next year.....maybe they will be in fashion next year at SPJain......and maybe som dude would fall in your love with your handwriting and just give you that call.

615

I myself have 98.2%ile and I was equally shocked when I found out that while last year 98%ile could have fetched at least one call, this year it was to no avail.


Don't you think that just this fact is enough to seriously consider changing the whole process. The subjective nature of the whole process.
It is totally dependent on the current mental state of the assessor.


I thnk i can understand the reasn for a bulk of ur grouse against spjain process...u just cant accept the fact that uve scored 98+ and havent got a call..dont think uve responded to my reply well too...
U seem to be constantly stuck with the subjective part of it...get real man..
Management is as subjective a topic as it gets...
if u think management is all about number crunching uve got it wrong...
for all i know u might be 99.99 in cat...but when in a real crunch situation ur performance might not reflect that...Thats y the institutes try to assess u subjectively...and different institutes look at it differently..as ajian has pointed out SPJain clearly mentions that CAT is just one of the criteria for selection and i think its very laudable of an institute tht does not toe the line of the rest and has a different point of view with respect to selection.Now they trust their committee to pick out the best in the lot who fit their view of looking at things...if u cannot trust their judgement then y try to be part of it...y apply itself..and u seem to be under the impression tht foreign instis just care abt GMAT scores...thts a myth..why do u think people pay big money to get their essays prim and proper??
Again if u feel the system has let u down due to its subjectivity suggest an objective mechanism....
top 150 cat scores who applies will get admission..no interviews(subjective ..right?) nothing...tht objective enuff???
andy.


Please comment on my point that the process is discriminatory against small town people.
616

I thnk i can understand the reasn for a bulk of ur grouse against spjain process...u just cant accept the fact that uve scored 98+ and havent got a call..dont think uve responded to my reply well too...
U seem to be constantly stuck with the subjective part of it...get real man..



you have totally taken my post out of context and gone ahead and posted your response.
Please see what I had written this in response to.
I absolutely did not say that I cant stomach the fact that even with 98+ I don't have a call.
In fact I had said this in response to a post made by ajain about something else.

By the way I was aware from having read PG's SPJain thread that they don't consider CAT too much but instead give weightage purely to essays.

Please go back and find the source of my comment and the reason I made it.

As far as me being hung up on the subjectivity is concerned, please convince me that the subjectivity of the process is not a serious shortcoming of it, and then I too will stop harping that SPJain's process is subjective.
617

I dunno where SPJIMR are using the CAT scores....max maybe they're using some kinda cutoff - say, not below 85%le.

For freshers ... it seems to be acads getting a bulk of the weightage ... unless of course ALL applicants with 70+ acads ( for Mumbai Univ, thats as good as it gets )... have written great essays, and those below 70 haven't.


Then I find that tonnes of people with inferior percentiles, inferior academics and less work ex ( I have one year work ex) getting a call then am I justified in questioning the selection process. I do believe that I have a very evident right to do so.


Thats why they have an escape clause ... the essays.


Regarding essays--- People peopl, whom are we kidding. The question is not whether people lie in the essays or not , rather the fact is that they have an oppurtunity to lie and some will do so.

Please do not tell me that the SPJain faculty is filled with Demi gods who can envisage the person's traits through his essays, they can be fooled too.


Agreed again. An interview might be able to smoke the bad eggs out ( to an extent ) but a written essay ..... given the scope for fabrication...


The difference between a 98 percentiler and a 80 percentiler is huge in terms of numbers and if the SPJain guyz think that they are able to bullshit the numbers and judge who the more deserving candidate is......well thats crappy aint it.


Its not that numbers make better managers or whatever but then not do fancy essays. The thing is... essay types might be worth it for ppl with many yrs of work ex, but with given that many applicants are either freshers or with timepass workex... what do you expect them to answer to those essay Qs ?
618

Every system has its own flaws, loopholes or limitations. SPjains' has them too. but we need to look at the issue at hand in a clear headed manner, we all are trying to do an MBA, we had numerous options in front of us, but do we have the option of reforming the admission process ? no we dont. we may hate it as much as we want, but the fact is, we all would be elated if we got a call from the same institutes.

we would forget all about admission woes then. i do agree its a case of sour grapes for most of the people. but i just dont agree we should blame them for that. a majority of people react that way. its human nature.
i would feel indignant if i was self-assured of my competence and still denied the oppurtunity to prove it.i would feel that the system has some inherent flaws that are precluding the chancesof someone as competent and deserving as me.
indeed the system has flaws, its not as transparent as it should be, in terms of warding off any doubts pertaining to the legitimacy of the selection process.

but as far the the doubts regarding the extent of subjectivity in the selection process is concerned, im not sure whether thats a strong argument in itself.

yes there are people who are making other people write their essays and getting calls, but that does not change the fact that, if i wrote my own essays and still did not get a call, then my essays must be lacking in some aspect or another. ofcourse its not correct that it wasnt a level playing field, and that instead of competing with fellow applicants my essay was competing with that of an experts', but this is where the process they want to employ becomes more important to them than its inherent flaws.

they want prospective students to express themselves.they want to know what their prospective students are all about. and this the method they choose to employ. can we do something about it. i dont think so. maybe we can file a PIL, but since our judiciary has flaws too, we dont have much hope with that either.

another point, we have lots of despondents here, who feel disillusioned by this entire process but a majority if them will apply again next year. mayb thats why the process will never change.

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Every system has its own flaws, loopholes or limitations. SPjains' has them too. but we need to look at the issue at hand in a clear headed manner, we all are trying to do an MBA, we had numerous options in front of us, but do we have the option of reforming the admission process ? no we dont. we may hate it as much as we want, but the fact is, we all would be elated if we got a call from the same institutes.

we would forget all about admission woes then. i do agree its a case of sour grapes for most of the people. but i just dont agree we should blame them for that. a majority of people react that way. its human nature.
i would feel indignant if i was self-assured of my competence and still denied the oppurtunity to prove it.i would feel that the system has some inherent flaws that are precluding the chancesof someone as competent and deserving as me.
indeed the system has flaws, its not as transparent as it should be, in terms of warding off any doubts pertaining to the legitimacy of the selection process.

but as far the the doubts regarding the extent of subjectivity in the selection process is concerned, im not sure whether thats a strong argument in itself.

yes there are people who are making other people write their essays and getting calls, but that does not change the fact that, if i wrote my own essays and still did not get a call, then my essays must be lacking in some aspect or another. ofcourse its not correct that it wasnt a level playing field, and that instead of competing with fellow applicants my essay was competing with that of an experts', but this is where the process they want to employ becomes more important to them than its inherent flaws.

they want prospective students to express themselves.they want to know what their prospective students are all about. and this the method they choose to employ. can we do something about it. i dont think so. maybe we can file a PIL, but since our judiciary has flaws too, we dont have much hope with that either.

another point, we have lots of despondents here, who feel disillusioned by this entire process but a majority if them will apply again next year. mayb thats why the process will never change.


Well said....
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Well I agree its well said......

1.Would I apply to the same college next year....in case I dont make it at the other biggies this year? The chances are that I would

2.Can I change the admission process?? ... Well I jolly well cannot

3.Am I despondent about the process ?... It mite appear to be so

All said and done...... is this reason enough for me or anyone for that matter to say that I shouldnt express my disgust at the admission process??

I dont think so. I accept that this is a crazy selection procedure but that we have to live with it. Yet, what got me going wat the self righteous indignation that some people expressed when the selection procedure was berated. Defenders of the hallowed portals of SPJain, I do not question the integrity of the college nor can I berate the overall capabilities of the institution. It is and will remain a great institution to do your MBA in. But that does not mean that the selection procedure is above questioning.

To the guyz who got the calls, I would sincerely say that, the question is not whether you have got the call or not. The cruz of the matter is that a lot of deserving candidates dint make it and that too at the cost of some very undeserving ones. For people to blindly defend the admission procedure and call it admirable is saad...( not referring to you jinxdjonx....referring to some earlier posts). That the selection procedure at SPJain is fundamentally filled with faulty logic has to be accepted. Most importantly guys with the calls should understand that they have been very lucky with the calls cause they are benefiters of a faulty process ( not all of them.....but a significant number surely)

Thats all the more reason to prepare harder for your interviews.
Anywayz I dont intend to hurt anyone's ideas or feelings here. I dont mind loosing..... but I sure mind being declared a looser inspite os scoring more goals that the opponent...if u get what I mean.