International educational options beyond the MBA

Hi

For past two hours i am going through this thread and it is quite informative.I have been working with one of the top telecom software companies for past 2 years after completely my engineering. For past 2 years i have been writing CAT but never made it and CAT 2009 was massacre.Now i am planing to write GMAT some time around mid september but i have little apprehensive about it.

Is two years experience in IT holds some value for international MBA?

I want to do MBA in marketing or operations but i always think that marketing is culture or society specific. The concepts that are valid in europe may not hold true for INDIA as i want to come back to INDIA after gaining some international exposure due to family constraints.Will it work fine?

Is there any other good B-school that accepts GMAT score in India other than ISB/IIM?

I am also looking for course other than MBA that provides some blend of management and telecommunications but not MBA in telecom that SITM offers, Is there any university in Europe or US that provides this type of course?

Thanks in advance


Stay patient and work for another 2-3 years before you think about an MBA. Rise in your career, gain skills and experience that you can offer to an employer abroad, then do an MBA. Right now - it would be tremendously difficult for you. If you have family constraints, why go anywhere for an MBA?
Hey Baccardisprite!

I am presently in my 4th year ofelectronics and communication engineering, have a cgpa of 8/10.
I have recently come across the MSc Management programs offered by various UK universities. I also know that most of them are really competitive. I've done my research on most of the programs.
My profile:
I've organized a couple of really big events at college and also headed one of them.
Have done an internship at technology start up.
I did attend the LSE Summer School last summer, secured an A grade.
I also got other extra curricular such as Salsa, basic accounting and and a couple of other trainings at the Electronics Corp of India ltd.

The reason i would want to pursue MSc Management is
1. I don't want to land up in an IT job as i am pretty bad at programming and there are only a couple of companies that take electronics and communication grad into core functions and getting those jobs is really difficult.
2. We have a family business and my desire is to take it to new heights and diversify from just manufacturing to clean energy and constructions.

I want to know should i take up the IT job work for sometime then go for an MBA or take up a MSc Management course?

Thanks!


If you have a GPA of 8/10, surely you're close to the top of the class. What makes getting that E&C; core job so difficult? If you don't want to do IT, have you thought of getting into a core company in the Energy field? Are you confining yourself to jobs only on campus - if so, why not apply to companies that don't come to campus? You seem to be accepting a set of narrow options with no attempt to broaden them. Look at the websites of major oil, refinery, engineering and specialist energy companies in India, and apply to their career websites!!!

Start thinking :-)

All the best
Cheerz
Hello BacardiSprite,

I am in a dilemma .... I have admissions from both RSM Erasmus with no scholarship and Nyenrode with substantial scholarship for full time MBA program. Plz help me to decide what will be my best bet ....a good school with no scholarship or a less known school with cost benefit. Cheers !!


I'd always go with the substantial scholarship. Nyenrode is not as well known as RSM Erasmus, but it is a solid school with a good reputation. If you have a clear idea of what you want your career to be, go for it.

Of course I'd encourage you to get a 2nd opinion from other people on this forum (like Martianonearth).

Cheerz & Good Luck.
Baccardisprite
Dear Sir,

I am Electrical Engineering Graduate from a Regional College. I managed to get into a Public Sector Enterprise which is into Engineering Consultancy.

I am into the Energy Management field, but I have also done projects in Quality Management, Operations and HR, for various industries ranging from process industries like chemicals, sugars, automotive to service industries like Electricity Boards and Railways. I have about 2 years of experience (including one year of training). My queries:

1. Will my one year training period be considered as experience or do I need to wait for another year to be in the 2+ year experience bracket?

2. If I am to continue to work for another year, please suggest any parallel activities to be taken up, like CWA.

2. I am interested in Operations Management not particularly into any sector (as you can see that my experience is not limited to any single sector). I do not intend to move out of India at this point of time. Please suggest a good MBA or equivalent programme in OR

Regards,

Pavan


1. Yes. Training periods are considered full time experience as long as you worked full time and got a salary for it.
2. A CWA qualification would be an excellent qualification to complement skills in operations management
3. NITIE!

All the Best
Baccardisprite
@Bacardisprite

Dear Sir ,

I JUST LOST THE SPIRIT !

I have faced some unbearable rejection in my academic and personal life however this experience below has simply destroyed the foundation of my strengths.

Even though you had advised that work for more two - three years and then apply for a MBA that too to a Tier 1 school , by that time I had applied to B - School in ASIA which used to be no 1 some years back and uses case study method .

I took their Entrance test , apart from Math I was good in all other sections .

My essays were different from others also plus my profile is unique as you already find as mentioned above .

In GD/PI , the moderator gave a feedback that I was the only one who got the GD right in our batch plus he really liked the insight I had on the topic .However he said only issue was he said he finds my experience pretty low even though I have three years of full time exp + free lance consulting for 2 years .

Now this same school has provided admits to candidates with 2 yrs of exp that too in pure software development .

Not to say that I am left puzzled now as in where I went wrong ,

I feel following were the places where I defaulted :

1. My low score in Math sections

2. During the GD I remarked when asked " How did the GD go according to you " ? : I said that I relate with two suggestions made by fellow candidates but I feel the students in the GD group lack real life exp with respect to the topic .

3.Lack Of knowledge in Finance & Accounting ( they asked this question)

4. He asked : What is the negative thing in you - I addressed
" aggressiveness " he said no , he remarked " your wrk exp is low "

Please find time to analyze my case and help me improve .

Total students in my GD batch were 6 yrs : three got through , their profiles were like this

1. one year with a leading credit rating agency + 1 year with Family business

2. 4 yrs as a Head Hunter for CEO's

3. 4 yrs IT software maintenance with a IT company which comes in top ten .

I cant Digest this defeat since when he asked why should I pick you among others? I said " Sir , as you mentioned I got the Case in the right direction + I have profile that deals with carbon foot prints " Please advice !


I am sorry to hear of your disappointment. Good news - many have suffered worse "failures" and have come out strong. Give yourself another 2-3 years, stay patient, diligent and disciplined and it will work out exactly as you want it. Right now - you sound too disappointed for any advice to work. Give yourself a few months, continue working and PM me again.

Get over this first! Stop sulking, moaning or complaining about it.

All the best
I am sorry to hear of your disappointment. Good news - many have suffered worse "failures" and have come out strong. Give yourself another 2-3 years, stay patient, diligent and disciplined and it will work out exactly as you want it. Right now - you sound too disappointed for any advice to work. Give yourself a few months, continue working and PM me again.

Get over this first! Stop sulking, moaning or complaining about it.

All the best



Thanks for being there ,

I have joined GMAT classes , hope to take it in October ..I am all out in vengeance .. I was more disappointed by the fact that I was dinged by a college which was probably one of the easiest schools to get into ... 😞

Hi,

I have found this thread really very helpful and thanks for takin time out to give ur valuable advice to al those in need.

I am interested in doing my MBA from USA and need ur advice.

My profile is as follows:

Acads:
BE Mechanical (University of Pune): 58%
12th: 75%
10th: 82%

Work Experience:
1 year
Position: CAD Engineer
Working as a group leader for my on going project and future projects in an Italian comany manufacturing drilling and foundation tools, machinery and accessories.

Extra curriculars: Participated in various robotic events during engineering n won some too. Also played a leadership role in a National Level robotics competition. Attended a couple of workshops. Currently nothing, other than learning to play the drums.

My purpose for MBA:
Basically I am a very technical guy, but I dont want to be just that. I want to develop my skills on the management side too and have a techno-commercial job. That is the reason I want to do my MBA in Operations Management or the SDM Course from MIT.

My queries:

1. Is doing an MBA from there really worth it?
2. What is the scope of getting a job in India after the MBA and some years of working in the USA? Cos I would like to return to my homeland after sometime (atleast that is the plan for now). Also, I have heard people say that there r a lot of differences in the operations in India and there, so would I face difficulties gettin a job here?
3. Is it really true that there are less no. of scholarships for MBA?
4. I am planning to apply in 2011 so that at the time of application I will have completed 2 years of work experience which is a requirement at most of the schools. Will this be enough to get me into a decent university after considering my academics? And wat chance do I have for scholarship?
5. From your previous posts I have understood that a good school is very important, I think atleast from among the top 30. So what kind of GMAT scores will they require for admision n scholarship, 700+?
6. Do I need to join coaching classes for the GMAT? I mean, will it make a lot of difference? Cos m planning to give my GMAT by March or April 2011, so I think I have enough time for self preparation and practice. What would u suggest?
7. I read in your 1st post that SDM needs a lot of work experience, but I dont wanna wait that long. So, is it possible to get admission for 2012?
8. If you have a negative feedback, then what would be your advice as to what more should I add to my profile other than work experience?

Looking forward to your reply.

I have been reading this link and your detailed feedback for MBA aspirants and really appreciate your efforts. I would really appreciate some feedback from you.

My profile is:
1) 10ths : 72
2) 12th : 60
3) Bachelor: Computer Engineering : 55% from Bharti Vidyapeeth Pune.
4) Work Ex: 2 years in ICICI Bank Ltd(International Trade finance Operations also called as International banking by some banks) as Assistant Manager Now Working with IDBI Bank (last 6 months) Assistant Manager.
5) Average Extra Curricular Activities/ No National/State level Certificates.


In my first year of engineering I realized i was in wrong place, luckily got placed in ICICI Bank and fell in love with banking. Long term I see myself part of International Chamber of Commerce
Helping in building export import policies and guidelines.

Now want to pursue Masters in (International Banking, Forex) as in India only IIFT is their I am planning to write GMAT later this year, I would be thankful if you can give me some guidance in

1. What colleges and countries can I look at?
2. When I talk to people some say going for MBA (Fin) is a better rather than going for some specialization, what is your say?
3. I really want to come back to India and work here after completing the studies, What are the possibilities?
4. Probably if get through next year I would have around 44 months of work ex, would it be better for me to stay here and rather prepare for Executive MBA from some top notch.
5. For the specialization I am looking at will some foreign language help, if yes than which one?
6. Would it be better for me to wait and gain more work ex because I dont want myself without a job?
7. How is SP Jain Singapore/Dubai ?

Many Thanks
:-(:-(:-(:-(

Can you please help me to decide whether MBA (port & shipping management) would bea good choice, as a career from Indian Maritime University, Its only their first batch, but they appears promising, in their propectus. Plz advise.

Profile:
10th : 92
12th : 87
Engineering CGPA: 6.7(top 10 School)(till my 7th semester out of 10. It is a dual degree course)
I wanted to pursue MS in Finance at LSE, Said and the likes.
I would be taking up CFA in my penultimate year.
I plan to take up some NCFM modules as well.
What more could I do to better my profile for the MS Finance program?

I'd always go with the substantial scholarship. Nyenrode is not as well known as RSM Erasmus, but it is a solid school with a good reputation. If you have a clear idea of what you want your career to be, go for it.

Of course I'd encourage you to get a 2nd opinion from other people on this forum (like Martianonearth).

Cheerz & Good Luck.
Baccardisprite



Thanks Baccardisprite !!!

I decided to go for Nyenrode. The job market in Europe is not in the best shape right now. So from ROI perspective, Nyenrode seemed to be the best bet. I talked to few alumni from both the schools too. I have few contacts in Europe(Holland) and hopefully I can leverage them post MBA. The reason for choosing Netherlands as MBA destination was more than that. I believe that the Dutch are the most liberal minded people in Europe. " The Americans of Europe" :). And Holland is the only nation in western Europe where one can easily get by speaking plain English.

Cheers !!!

Hi,
I have just finished my B.Tech from GGSIP university, Main campus kashmere gate,delhi. While in 3rd year there was an option to undergo a Btech mba integrated 5 yr dual degree program (with an option to leave after 4 years with btech degree and certificate in management)which i opted. Now i have been placed in infosys at 3.25lpa also inversting one more yr gives me an MBA degree as well (ip is not well known for its MBA program) .

I am planning to go for masters in statistic/quantitative research(12/18 months) My main target is LSE. So what do you think will add to my credentials? An MBA degree or workex + 2 yrs part time management certi?.. Please suggest fellow puys..


Thanx
Manisha

hi there Sir, I talked to u earlier , I am having experience of Steel Authority of India Ltd of 3years....I am also adding our recent posts ....I appeared for Gmat and got a score of 610.....should I apply to some college or should I appear again


My profile is as follows:

Acads:
BE Mechanical (University of Pune): 58%
12th: 75%
10th: 82%

Work Experience:
1 year
Position: CAD Engineer
Working as a group leader for my on going project and future projects in an Italian comany manufacturing drilling and foundation tools, machinery and accessories.

Extra curriculars: Participated in various robotic events during engineering n won some too. Also played a leadership role in a National Level robotics competition. Attended a couple of workshops. Currently nothing, other than learning to play the drums.

My purpose for MBA:
Basically I am a very technical guy, but I dont want to be just that. I want to develop my skills on the management side too and have a techno-commercial job. That is the reason I want to do my MBA in Operations Management or the SDM Course from MIT.

My queries:

1. Is doing an MBA from there really worth it?
2. What is the scope of getting a job in India after the MBA and some years of working in the USA? Cos I would like to return to my homeland after sometime (atleast that is the plan for now). Also, I have heard people say that there r a lot of differences in the operations in India and there, so would I face difficulties gettin a job here?
3. Is it really true that there are less no. of scholarships for MBA?
4. I am planning to apply in 2011 so that at the time of application I will have completed 2 years of work experience which is a requirement at most of the schools. Will this be enough to get me into a decent university after considering my academics? And wat chance do I have for scholarship?
5. From your previous posts I have understood that a good school is very important, I think atleast from among the top 30. So what kind of GMAT scores will they require for admision n scholarship, 700+?
6. Do I need to join coaching classes for the GMAT? I mean, will it make a lot of difference? Cos m planning to give my GMAT by March or April 2011, so I think I have enough time for self preparation and practice. What would u suggest?
7. I read in your 1st post that SDM needs a lot of work experience, but I dont wanna wait that long. So, is it possible to get admission for 2012?
8. If you have a negative feedback, then what would be your advice as to what more should I add to my profile other than work experience?

Looking forward to your reply.


1. Yes - as long as the MBA / Masters (& what specifically your study / learn) is consistent with your career goals, and complements or helps you transfer your experience and skills to your career post your masters or MBA.

2. The scope depends on your career, how it develops after the MBA and if you're working for the right companies. For example, IF you end up working abroad immediately after the MBA / Masters in:

a) a multi-national company that has strong ties to India (like an existing subsidiary) and / or

b) an industry that has strong growth prospects in India (automotive, pharmaceuticals, healthcare, life-sciences, industrial machinery) and

c) you have strong functional / management / leadership experience that a company / industry like above that will find strongly valuable & applicable to their operations

Yes - you should be able to find a good role in India after a few years abroad. Mind you, it's not likely to be easy, you'll need to choose your role and companies carefully both immediately after the MBA and when you plan your return to India.

Gaining the right experience which is hopefully consistent with your long term career goals + consistent with the demands of the market, company, country and industry - is critical.

3. Yes - MBAs normally give out fewer scholarships / assistantships and fellowships to their students than do other master's programs.

The reason is simple - most scientific and technical masters programs get corporate / endowment funding to conduct research a part of which is distributed amongst students towards financial aid, assistantships & scholarships (mind you - still very competitive). In effect these become a sort of "payment" for the students to contribute to specific scientific and technical research while doing their Masters in that particular university. M.Sc in science, engineering subjects are 50% research + 50% career focused education. A significant # of M.Sc students in these subjects go on to Doctoral studies (Ph.Ds).

MBAs by contrast study and leave, and very rarely contribute to research, so the very few scholarships that are given out are done purely with the aim to attract a more competitive profile of student. An MBA is 100% a career focused education.

4. 2 years of experience is too little for the career you seek and for the schools you're thinking about. Your academics are weak and the only way you can take them out of the equation when applying is through spectacular professional achievement in the next 1 year (like a significant invention) or several years of experience backed by strong skills, career progress, leadership experience and a bag of success. All of that takes time, a minimum of 5 years out of college.

Don't measure your career by your chances of getting into school next year. Measure your career by the skills you gain in your job. Getting recruited by a company after an MBA / Masters is 75% your pre-MBA skills and 25% the school you go to. So it's a lot more to do with you.

With 2 years under your belt, you're unlikely to have acquired skills that a post MBA / MAsters employer will value!

5.700+ is highly recommended. It takes away any doubts as to your academic ability.

6 Yes. I do recommend that. It will help you spend time focussing on the GMAT and help you prepare.

7. Highly unlikely. Refer my comments on point 4 above.

8. Work for about 5-6 years, achieve a bag of skills, progress and professional experience your future employer will value. You seem clear about your long term goal. But build skills, employers will value those above your degree. Learn a foreign language, it will help you signal a skill to your future employer. And since you want a long term career in commercial operations - try applying to the MIT LGO program 5 years from now.

All the best.
Baccardisprite
amituniyal Says
Can you please help me to decide whether MBA (port & shipping management) would bea good choice, as a career from Indian Maritime University, Its only their first batch, but they appears promising, in their propectus. Plz advise.


I could help. Tell me more about you, what you do and what you want to do. Can't say a thing about the institution above, have no clue about it.

hi baccardisprite...

in continuation with my query(http://www.pagalguy.com/discussions/international-educational-options-beyond-the-mba-25033375) and your reply to it, it would like to ask you another question..I applied for the Chinese Scholarship Council govt scholarship and got a 1 year full scholarship to study chinese at tsinghua(the top university in China). Along with that,I could only manage to get admission into the masters in international business program of Delhi School of Economics in DU. Now I am facing a big dilemma as to what to do..

I dont know why but I can't control the sinophile in me. I am just damn attracted towards china and seriously believe that my long term future is related to it.I am a bit too curious to explore that country in a greater detail and the best thing to start with is to learn mandarin, which I am already doing.. I dont know how this proclivity towards china going to shape my future. But I dont have any answer to the question of my family as to "what is the benefit of going to an alien country for 1 year and learning their language and then coming back home"......

On the other hand, my family is pressurising me not to leave DSE as it will secure my future and would help me land a good job,after which I could do whatever I want to do in life,go to china,taiwan,north korea or any other f****** place...they are also right in saying that thye knowledge of chinese would be an excellent complement to my degree in international business..so i should wait for two years,complete my masters and then apply for a scholarship again...

Again I am so confused..I believe that real knowledge comes outside the classroom,when you live with differrent people and cultures and learn from then,the opportunity for which this scholarship provides me..but then my family's point of view is also not wrong..should I invest my 2 years in MIB and then go to china or should I listen to my heart and go out for a risky adventure to learn the real meaning of life???I AM DAMN CONFUSED


My profile is:
1) 10ths : 72
2) 12th : 60
3) Bachelor: Computer Engineering : 55% from Bharti Vidyapeeth Pune.
4) Work Ex: 2 years in ICICI Bank Ltd(International Trade finance Operations also called as International banking by some banks) as Assistant Manager Now Working with IDBI Bank (last 6 months) Assistant Manager.
5) Average Extra Curricular Activities/ No National/State level Certificates.
In my first year of engineering I realized i was in wrong place, luckily got placed in ICICI Bank and fell in love with banking. Long term I see myself part of International Chamber of Commerce
Helping in building export import policies and guidelines.
Now want to pursue Masters in (International Banking, Forex) as in India only IIFT is their I am planning to write GMAT later this year, I would be thankful if you can give me some guidance in
1. What colleges and countries can I look at?
2. When I talk to people some say going for MBA (Fin) is a better rather than going for some specialization, what is your say?
3. I really want to come back to India and work here after completing the studies, What are the possibilities?
4. Probably if get through next year I would have around 44 months of work ex, would it be better for me to stay here and rather prepare for Executive MBA from some top notch.
5. For the specialization I am looking at will some foreign language help, if yes than which one?
6. Would it be better for me to wait and gain more work ex because I dont want myself without a job?
7. How is SP Jain Singapore/Dubai ?
Many Thanks
:-(:-(:-(:-(


1. Refer your question 3, start with India, since you want to work in India. It's quite pointless to go abroad for studies if you intend coming back to India immediately after your studies.

Aside from IIFT, have you checked out the MFC Program offered by the Delhi University South Campus. It's actually a good program and people go into financial professions pretty close to what you've envisioned for yourself above. What prevents you from writing the CAT and trying for an IIM, all of which offer pretty strong finance elective specializations, or FMS or J Bajaj, or Sp Jain's (Mumbai main campus) 2 year PGDM in Finance?

I think your research into good full time finance courses in India is incomplete. Suggest you conduct deeper research.

2. By specialized, I assume you mean M.Sc in Finance vs MBA in Finance. The MBA is a more well-rounded program which (abroad) is designed for people with 4-5+ years of experience. The M.Sc is designed for people with 0-3 years of experience who wish to enter the financial industry / function early in their career.

3. Refer point 1 above.

4. If you want to stay in India, and get an EMBA, you'd need about 6+ years of experience. Again, if your short & long term goal is a career in India, then work for this length of time and go for an appropriate EMBA. The concept has caught on in India and all the major Indian business schools will offer this. To bulk your skills, go for a CFA as well alongside an EMBA or (part-time) M.Sc in Finance.

5. If you want to work in a function that involves dealing with foreign clients or want to work abroad for a few years, learn a foreign language, but you need to choose a language based on where you want to work. If in Europe (or dealing with European Clients / partners), then French / German / Spanish would help. If Latin America - then Spanish; if South East Asia - then Mandarin / Cantonese; and if North East Asia - then Japanese.... Your geographical interest dictates the choice of language to be learnt.

6. Yes - I suggest you work for at least another 3 years before you're clearer in your head about what your long term career goals are ( in terms of geography) then try for an MBA / M.Sc Fin / EMBA...

7. No idea... sorry

All the best
Baccardisprite
Profile:
10th : 92
12th : 87
Engineering CGPA: 6.7(top 10 School)(till my 7th semester out of 10. It is a dual degree course)
I wanted to pursue MS in Finance at LSE, Said and the likes.
I would be taking up CFA in my penultimate year.
I plan to take up some NCFM modules as well.
What more could I do to better my profile for the MS Finance program?


If you want to enter Finance young, you're chasing the right things. LSE is top class, a CFA will help you signal professional competence to your employers... Just study hard, get good GPAs ace the GMAT and be ready to clearly articulate why you want to be in Finance, and why LSE is the best school for you to pursue that dream.

Presuming you want to work in London after the M.Sc, note that London as a financial center is recovering pretty slowly and the job-market will not (probably never) go back to pre-2007 levels; people without experience will find it quite challenging.

You might consider trying for a job in Finance out of college (you should find doors opening for you out of a Top 10 Engg college), working for 4-5 years, acquiring the CFA charter over this period, then try for an advanced finance qualification.

All the best
Baccardisprite
Thanks Baccardisprite !!!

I decided to go for Nyenrode. The job market in Europe is not in the best shape right now. So from ROI perspective, Nyenrode seemed to be the best bet. I talked to few alumni from both the schools too. I have few contacts in Europe(Holland) and hopefully I can leverage them post MBA. The reason for choosing Netherlands as MBA destination was more than that. I believe that the Dutch are the most liberal minded people in Europe. " The Americans of Europe" :). And Holland is the only nation in western Europe where one can easily get by speaking plain English.

Cheers !!!


Good luck! Be sure to leverage the alumni network and don't be afraid to ask your career services to train you on effective off-campus job searches. If / when time permits, try and learn coversational Dutch. Employers will appreciate the effort in addition to your professional skills.
Hi,
I have just finished my B.Tech from GGSIP university, Main campus kashmere gate,delhi. While in 3rd year there was an option to undergo a Btech mba integrated 5 yr dual degree program (with an option to leave after 4 years with btech degree and certificate in management)which i opted. Now i have been placed in infosys at 3.25lpa also inversting one more yr gives me an MBA degree as well (ip is not well known for its MBA program) . I am planning to go for ms in operations research (12/18 months) My main target is LSE. So what do you think will add to my credentials? An MBA degree or workex + 2 yrs part time management certi?.. Please suggest fellow puys.. Thanx
Manisha


As a firm believer in the value of work experience, I would suggest going for Infosys, working for 3 years then trying for the M.S in LSE.

Good Luck.