International educational options beyond the MBA

MBA
1042

Qualification - B.E. (E&C;) - M.S. Ramaiah, MBA (Marketing) - PES School of Management (Both in Bangalore)
Work Ex - 7 years
GMAT - Not taken
Role - Currently working in a marketing role in IBM India.

I'm confused and have been for quite some time. Two goals that I want to pursue are - 1) Work in Singapore (not looking at any other location), because I love the place and proximity from India and 2) Want to pursue an international degree abroad.

I completed MBA soon after graduation and therefore did the course without any work exp. Finished MBA, got placed through campus and have been working for the last years.

My dilemma - Whether it makes sense to pursue a one year international MBA from Singapore or any other place, which is also affordable (15 - 20 Lakhs) all over again or whether I should pursue a more specialised degree in Marketing or Consulting.

Since most of your thread was around doing degrees other than the traditional MBA, I thought I should post this note here.

I want to continue with my role in Marketing, but strongly feel that the lack of doing a degree from a reputed B-School is holding me back. This could just be a feeling, but I surely want to look at increasing my earning potential as well. I know that the whole growth story is now in India, but badly aspire to work and make a good career abroad as well. Initially was thinking of SP Jains GMBA programme, but not a lot of great reviews.

Also, do you think doing an executive education programme (1 -2 month) from a school like INSEAD would rather make sense?

Please let me know your thoughts. Others also kindly pour in your suggestions.

Thanks,
JFreak!


Thanks for the feedback. Looks like you have taken the time to think, and perhaps read some of the posts here, both very good. You're also clear on 2 questions out of 3 when choosing to go for further education (function & geography), your reasons for an MBA are sound (career driven).

To achieve your future career goals, you should now have a large part of the 75% why a future employer will recruit you. Hopefully you have over 7 years achieved a level of career progress that would help to a 1st/2nd level management role in a corporate or a Senior Associate role in a Consulting unit. Your career in Marketing would have seen you interact with internal stakeholders and possibly with clients, meaning a career in consulting is also within reach. You now need to worry about the best of the 25% (your education).

You are yet a little junior to depend on an Executive program, particularly if you want to do it independently and without sponsorship. IF IBM India offers you this, which hopefully leads to an opportunity in Singapore, then by all means go for it. My recommendation below is based on your interest to go it independently.

The best schools in Singapore are INSEAD, and NUS/NTU. INSEAD is the best for its global reputation as the world's best all-round 1 year MBA, strong career office (critical for a guy like you), alumni network, and super connections to corporates in multiple industries and particularly with the Consulting firms (Big 3 Strat, Big 4, Technology, and Niche functional / industry). NUS & NTU are both good programs, but their career offices are anecdotally not the best. You'll be pretty much left to your own devices. INSEAD's career office has not only the credibility to bring companies on campus for you to meet, interact and network with, but train you to conduct an effective job search off campus as well (including CV writing, communications, alumni contact, cold-calling, connections with head-hunters etc). If consulting is a career path, then INSEAD has an extremely well organized consulting club where you can get both guidance and practice interviews. I doubt NUS/ NTU would offer you that.

Forget about SP Jain, the class is generally junior people you can't connect with. The career office will be geared to junior management positions, a stage you have crossed. The school is also too new, to have established a credible position in the Singaporean market compared to the three above.

I would concentrate energies to writing a super-strong application to INSEAD. Don't worry, they get a lot of Indians seeking 2nd MBAs.

Give the GMAT, try scoring 720+ and build a patient and well-structured application to enter in 2012, including taking the help of a strong and competent for your essays & rationale for an MBA. On the way, try learning some Chinese (will help a lot with clients both in the corporate & consulting fields).

Overall - you're not in a bad place. You just need to clear your thoughts and move forward.

Hope that helps you
All the best
Baccardisprite
1043

Dear Baccardisprite,

Awesome and thanks a lot..your reply was quite encouraging, exhaustive and just what I needed. Appreciate the time taken for a quick response. As for me, I think the next step would be to take up the GMAT and see where I stand..Lets c how this goes.

Thanks again,
Jfreak!

1044

Hi baccardisprite,

I am really glad to have come across your posts on career options beyond MBAs, its been really intuitive on the various options one can specialize in. I am looking at taking the GMAT for a 2012/13 entry.

My Profile:
Qualification - B.E. Mechanical Engg
Work Ex - 7.5 years
GMAT - Not taken
Role - Currently working in BI Consultant Role with TCS.

I have been in the BI Domain for about 7 years I have had the oppurtunity to work closely with senior management and assit them in their decision making with the on the above ranging in verticals such as Trade Finance, Manufacturing & Telecomn. Wanted to get your insight as to how to evolve with this background of mine and specialize into an MBA or a masters degree.WIll and MBA in corporate strategy be suitable or a masters degree in areas such as business analytics and operations that are on offing.

1045

Can anybody throw some light on the job market in India for Global Macro/FX/Rates/Commodities Research roles. at BBs and Boutiques? What would typically be the path to/after them?

1046
Hi baccardisprite,

I am really glad to have come across your posts on career options beyond MBAs, its been really intuitive on the various options one can specialize in. I am looking at taking the GMAT for a 2012/13 entry.

My Profile:
Qualification - B.E. Mechanical Engg
Work Ex - 7.5 years
GMAT - Not taken
Role - Currently working in BI Consultant Role with TCS.

I have been in the BI Domain for about 7 years I have had the oppurtunity to work closely with senior management and assit them in their decision making with the on the above ranging in verticals such as Trade Finance, Manufacturing & Telecomn. Wanted to get your insight as to how to evolve with this background of mine and specialize into an MBA or a masters degree.WIll and MBA in corporate strategy be suitable or a masters degree in areas such as business analytics and operations that are on offing.


You're thinking education without thinking about your career first. There are a few careers that you can get into with your technical and BI background, and depending on which stakeholders (external like clients, or internal like BU head) your work has an impact on. Think these over and post again :-).

Sorry if I'm not immediately answering your question, but I'd like you to think first.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1047
rust in peace Says
Can anybody throw some light on the job market in India for Global Macro/FX/Rates/Commodities Research roles. at BBs and Boutiques? What would typically be the path to/after them?


Ask MartianONEarth, I believe he was in Corp Fin before his current venture. Or he may point you in the right direction.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1048

Hey Baccardisprite,

Thanks a ton for your reply, not at all,infact you were right :). Well the reason for the education stems from two things. Primarily being the kick I get out of the work I have been doing i.e high level BI Dashboards assisting Big Heads (External Clients ) in making strategic decisions with regards to their business, process improvements across various business areas with BI. Which basically requires putting myself in their shoes and I have enjoyed it thoroughly. Hence that urge to get an MBA/Masters degree under my belt. And the Second being moving out from an IT services setup as it does get stagnating over the long run with it running into routine a operational stuff though you do have options as that of a pure Technical Architect or a Pre Sales. Business Development role is an interesting option, well Business Dev isnt bad but really not too keen at it.

Hence was looking at being on the other side make that difference with the experience I have had and the need for getting that elusive MBA under my belt.Having worked in the finance and manufacturing verticals, I was looking at possible areas for specialization as Corporate Strategy/Finance Or Operations /Consulting with my BI background backing me on these fronts.
It was then I stumbled upon Business Analytics or say Operation Research and was exploring on these as a possible career advancement options, was exploring on these fronts and was looking at other possible areas that could be of use with my BI background.

1049

Hi Baccardisprite,
First of all I would convey my deepest regard for such a informative thread.

My details are as follows:

Qualification - B.Tech. (E&C;), MBA (Finance)
Work Ex -4 years
GMAT - Not taken
Role - Currently working in a marketing role in IBM India.

I have work experience of Software Industry and Manufacturing Industry for last 4 years.I am looking for some opportunities in consulting domain,general management or finance.My priority is consulting domain.

Kindly guide me the courses(domestic and international) which will be beneficial for my future.

Thanking you in advance

1050
Hi Baccardisprite,
First of all I would convey my deepest regard for such a informative thread.

My details are as follows:

Qualification - B.Tech. (E&C;), MBA (Finance)
Work Ex -4 years
GMAT - Not taken
Role - Currently working in a marketing role in IBM India.

I have work experience of Software Industry and Manufacturing Industry for last 4 years.I am looking for some opportunities in consulting domain,general management or finance.My priority is consulting domain.

Kindly guide me the courses(domestic and international) which will be beneficial for my future.

Thanking you in advance


If consulting is your goal, and you have enjoyed quick career progress in your role with IBM, your profile and experience is in the sweet-spot for consulting (strategy, operations or technology). Look for a Top 10 US MBA, INSEAD / LBS in the EU, INSEAD Singapore! In the US Top 10-15, look for the schools that are affiliated to Universities with strong Engineering Schools. It widens the recruiter base for you, possibly also offers educational possibilities in the techno-managerial space. All these schools have 4 elements which will enable your career push into consulting:

1. Strong recruitment by all the consulting majors (avg 10%+ of the class), therefore a strong alumni base in consulting firms of all kinds, large & small, broad and niche

2. Well regarded elective groups in strategy, finance, operations and technology; which will offer you the possibility to mix & match courses

3. Top notch career services office, with the street credibility to bring the consulting firms to present on campus, allowing you to meet and network with alumni / people from the firms you target

4. Well established, student run consulting clubs, offering presentations and networking opportunities from alumni in consulting, case interview practice and other career resources, guidance and mentorship

Recommendation:

1. Be patient and strategize applications for fall 2012; 5 years experience is way better than 4. Another year of career progress (hopefully)
2. Prepare well for, and try acing the GMAT (740+ would help a lot)
3. Hopefully you had good grades in your academics
4. Learn a foreign language to at least intermediate / business fluency
5. Please look at your financial situation and see how you can manage funds (save every penny you can).

All the best
Baccardisprite
1051
Hey Baccardisprite,

Thanks a ton for your reply, not at all,infact you were right :). Well the reason for the education stems from two things. Primarily being the kick I get out of the work I have been doing i.e high level BI Dashboards assisting Big Heads (External Clients ) in making strategic decisions with regards to their business, process improvements across various business areas with BI. Which basically requires putting myself in their shoes and I have enjoyed it thoroughly. Hence that urge to get an MBA/Masters degree under my belt. And the Second being moving out from an IT services setup as it does get stagnating over the long run with it running into routine a operational stuff though you do have options as that of a pure Technical Architect or a Pre Sales. Business Development role is an interesting option, well Business Dev isnt bad but really not too keen at it.

Hence was looking at being on the other side make that difference with the experience I have had and the need for getting that elusive MBA under my belt.Having worked in the finance and manufacturing verticals, I was looking at possible areas for specialization as Corporate Strategy/Finance Or Operations /Consulting with my BI background backing me on these fronts.
It was then I stumbled upon Business Analytics or say Operation Research and was exploring on these as a possible career advancement options, was exploring on these fronts and was looking at other possible areas that could be of use with my BI background.


I don't think your intended career is functionally too great a change from your current career, only a strong commercial element added, which makes sense. I would recommend a strong 1 year MBA/PGPX program with electives spanning, finance, technology and strategy. IF you can swing a 720-730 in the GMAT, and craft a compelling story through your essays as to why an MBA is necessary for your career, I don't think you'll have a problem landing interviews with schools. Just put together a strong application, hopefully your academics were alright, and you have a set of people that will write cogent, well argued recommendations to the adcomms of the schools.

As for the schools - PGPX's at IIMs A/B/C, SP Jain, ISB, INSEAD (Europe / Singapore), IMD, Cambridge, Oxford. Research the programs well and choose no more than 4 schools, any one of which you would be equally happy to attend.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1052

Thanks a ton Baccardisprite!! Well my academics are average, will need to get the other two pretty right to have a strong application going for me.Thanks once again really appreciate the insight you've provided.

Regards,
luckyinjay

1053

Hi baccardisprite,
really happy to come across this thread regarding options beyond MBA.
i would like some help regarding a few questions i have about Msc courses in UK
My profile is as follows
May 2009 to Aug 2009 as relationship manager with HSBCinvestdirect
Jan 2010 to July 2011 Business Analyst(SAS Analyst) with Cscape Tech.
looking for a Job change at the moment in the same field
Base SAS certified
Business Economics Graduate with 53.8%
I have my own social service venture and also a founding member of an NGO working on blood donations

i have been looking into Msc business analytics or marketing analytics as per different universities. i wish to remain in the field of analytics and hence looking for masters in the same. however i do not know much about Msc and its value and also its worth in India, would like to work in UK for some time but seems that the situation is not too bright.

the universities i have been looking at are lancaster and warwick. i have been informed by my counselor that warwick is unlikely however lancaster i can be hopeful about. however i have a lot of questions about lancaster, its reputation, services in terms of career, since i have been told that lancaster university is situated in a small town, does that impact job opportunities. also MBA abroad seems unlikely at the moment and even 2 to 3 years down the line due to financial constraints.
So is Msc an option for masters at the risk of being domain specific.
also if you could answer the pros and cons of lancaster, ways of improving your applications, info regarding Msc marketing analytics if any

1054

Hi,

I am really glad and thankful for coming across such a informative thread of yours.:D

My profile in short.
Qualifications: B.Tech (Mechanical Eng)
Work experience : 4.5 yrs in an Indian software MNC. Presently working as systems analyst.
GMAT : 640. Planning to take GMAT once again
Extra curricular activities : Average
Target schools: Any one of ISB, NUS, Nanyang, S.P. Jain Global school and some other North American schools

I am planning to attend MBA classes in 2013. Meanwhile I am planning to add some more differentiating points to my profile. As of now, I have started learning a french language. I will be able to complete beginners levels (a1-a2) before I start applying in aug 2012.
Meanwhile I am also considering to attain another degree (through distance education) from University of London (UoL) in Economics and Management.
Though I will not be able to complete the degree by Aug 2012, I am considering that this degree will help making my profile strong for next yr (in case, if I fail getting an admission).

I would like to receive ur valuable comments on the value of this degree (UoL International programs) in general and by the b-schools. Will it be considered as strong differentiating point on my resume. Or any other ideas that I should consider.

Regards,
Chetan

1055
Career Goals?

All the best
Baccardisprite


Hi,

Thnx for replying.

I am looking to get international experience and enrich my knowledge with MS in CS/IT. Ultimately for a change in my job profile.

As mentioned in my previous posts, would like to get into any of the reputed universities in US or Europe with cost (including living expense) not greater than 20k USD.

Could you suggest some of the countries where education is growing good and the cost is comparatively less.

I am looking for Sweden/Germany compared to US/UK. Suggest on the same as well please !!
1056

How good is the MSc. in management program from HEC Paris from ROI perspective? Is it a good idea to pursue a degree like MiM from a French Bschool?

How good is the Masters in Management of IE Business school?Currently it doesn't feature in FT rankings...

1057

How good is the MSc. in management program from HEC Paris from ROI perspective? Is it a good idea to pursue a degree like MiM from a French Bschool?

How good is the Masters in Management of IE Business school?Currently it doesn't feature in FT rankings...

1058

The reason I'm looking at this program is because it's curriculum is no different from MBA curriculum + it costs half of MBA + is meant for young professionals...

I have a very common place profile that every IT professional from India has...I'm 2 years into IT...

I am looking at coming back to India in 2 years post graduating from the program...Given this, is it a good idea to go to HEC Paris for an MiM(mktg specialization)...

How well are MiM degrees valued in India? In short is it thought equivalent to PGDM IIMs?
I'm asking this because I see IIM-A feature in the FT MiM ranking list of 2011...

Also, share your views about IE business school's master in international management (Sales n Mktg) program...

Certain other schools that rank high on MiM are ESCP Europe, Essec Business School, ESADE

Thx,
Nandini

1059

Hi Puys,

I am new to this website, but heard a lot about it from many of my friends. So I thought of going through threads, but I didnt find much about MS in management :shocked:, So I thought that maybe I should start a new thread or Moderator please divert me to the correct thread. I am actually new to this vast world of management, first let me tell you about my profile.
Finished my engineering from Bangalore in 2009 and currently working with Wipro Technologies :banghead: since then till date. Also, did an internship in a market research firm before joining Wipro Technologies. I have the following queries:

1.I am planning to target either of the following courses, for MS in management:
a.Corporate and Business Strategy
b.Engineering management
c.Finance
d.Finance Management and managerial accounting
e.Human Resources Management and organizational behavior
f.Management Theory
g.Marketing or Marketing Management
h.Operations Management and supply chain management
2.Can you please tell me what is the difference between MS in management and MBA.
3.With my given profile will I be getting into a decent college for MS in Management.
4.Also, I want to know what are the good colleges for MS in management.
5.Also, the ROI on MS in management and scope of employment in US or in India after doing MSM.

Hopefully, I get answers to my queries.

Regards ,
Zimba

1060

Hi,

why i particularly posted in this thread is because i want to pursue ERP Sales or technical sales post graduation. Hence i wanted to know if there are any particular MS courses that i can apply to. If true what is the value of these MS programs here in India Post Graduation.

I gave my GMAT again Yesterday, but ended up getting the same score of 610(q43,v31). I had put in all my efforts into GMAT,but could not get better of it. I wanted to know what chances do I stand with my current GMAT score. Also, since I have taken GMAT twice, I dont think I can write it for the third time. My profile is as below.

GMAT- 610 (q43,v31)
Total Professional experience-Currently 3yrs will be 4 by the time i join colleges.I am working with a IT company in India as a Tech Lead for a support project,team size of 15.
During my high school and college was running my family business for 6 yrs before joining the current company.
No other extra curricular as only thing that i did during my college days was look into my father's business.
Have a GPA of 3.4 and am a Bachelor of Engineering graduate.
Post MBA goals- Want to become a ERP sales manager/ business analyst, which will enable me to use my present professional experience.

Colleges I am planning to apply.

Joseph M Katz
RIT-Saunders
University Of georgia-Terry
University of Buffalo-Suny
Thunderbird

Please evaluate and let me know the real scenario. Also, please let me know if i would be eligible to apply for Scholarship.

1061

hi baccardisprite,
First of all thanks so much for taking time and creating this wonderful thread over the past few years!!
I have 5 years of experience, 4 of these with a credit rating agency and last one year is with the world bank in credit risk management. I have cleared my cfa 3rd level this june and expect to get my charter this year. I have just started researching about schools/programs. I plan to give gmat in early 2012 and apply next year (so that I can leverage my WB experience in my application)
I want to go for a PG to break into into an impact investing role (likes of ifc, acumen) or a higher position in developmental finance role in my organization (WBG or other MDB's) or at the least a position in debt/macro asset management firm. I might be able to do this in 3-4 years without another degree too, but a branded degree increases my chances and opens better careers prospects within my org too. I want to keep my liabilities to the minimum so that I have the flexibility to take risks and wouldn't be tied down.
I recently came across a cheaper alternative -LBS Mif- liked it - not too quant focused like the US ones and leads to careers paths (asset management, Corp Fin) I am interested in. However, my friends say Mif after my cfa would be overkill at an early stage of my career and advise me to go for a generic mba'ish program as I would be only doing one degree and this should open more options over my next 30 year career. Now I am confused between an mba (high cost and risky economic environment in the west; not too sure that I can the desired result from a 1 year mba in india) and a masters/Mif program. I would love to hear your thoughts on this dilemma. Other puys who might be to offer guidance are welcome too.

cheers,
apache