International educational options beyond the MBA

Slightly convoluted message, but from what you have written, here's what you communicate / imply (please correct me if I'm wrong):

...
Hope that helps you.

All the best
Baccardisprite


Awesome is what I can say,
Brilliant, is what you deserve...

A truly enlightening advise.

Hi Baccardi,

Following is my profile:

Work exp - TCS - supply chain domain - client i2 technlogies - 3.5 years - QA
JDA (formally i2 technologies) - 6 months (current employer) - QA

GMAT 600
B.tech 70% (Chemical engg. VIT vellore).

I am planning to apply for the following colleges:

International University of Japan - MBA Full time
University of Amstradam - MSc. In Operation Research
Mip Politecnico di Milano School of Management - Master in Supply Chain and Purchasing Management MSCPM
University of Birmingham - MSc. Operations Management
Cranfield University school of management - MSc in Logistics and Supply Chain Management
University of Strathclyde Glassgow - MSc Operational Research
University of Strathclyde Glassgow - MSc Operations Management in Engineering
Maastricht University School of Business and Economics - MSc Econometrics and Operations Research
Maastricht University School of Business and Economics - MSc. Global Supply Chain Management and Change
EBS Universitt - MSc. In Management.
HHL - Leipzig Graduate School of Management - MSc. In Management/ MBA
UCD Smurfit School - MSc in Supply Chain Management
Technology Universitat - MSc. In transport and logistics
Nottingham University Business School - MSc Operations Management
Nottingham University Business School - MSc Operations Management and Manufacturing Systems
Nottingham University Business School - MSc Industrial Engineering and Operations Management
Nottingham University Business School - MSc Supply Chain and Operations Management
Nottingham University Business School - MSc Logistics and Supply Chain Management
Rouen Business School - Master of Science in Supply Chain Management
ESC RENNES School of Business - MSc. In LSCM
EDHEC Business School - Master of Science in Strategy & Organisation Consultancy

I know the list is long.... I am yet to cut short those.... can you please help me with that :). If I were to choose 10 among those, which ones do you recommend?

if possible can you recommend any additional courses which are good and I did not search it on the net ? :)

Thanks,
Sriananth H

Hi,
You can also add the ISLI program of BEM.
It is consider one of the best in europe

Hi Baccardi,

Following is my profile:

Work exp - TCS - supply chain domain - client i2 technlogies - 3.5 years - QA
JDA (formally i2 technologies) - 6 months (current employer) - QA

GMAT 600
B.tech 70% (Chemical engg. VIT vellore).

I am planning to apply for the following colleges:

...

I know the list is long.... I am yet to cut short those.... can you please help me with that :). If I were to choose 10 among those, which ones do you recommend?

if possible can you recommend any additional courses which are good and I did not search it on the net ? :)

Thanks,
Sriananth H


I am assuming a long term career interest in the field. None of these schools is a truly big name apart from Cranfield's program, which is quite well regarded. Why not try the GMAT/GRE again and try some of the biggest in the field - MIT's MLOG / ZLOG Program, Georgia Tech's ISYE school and Cranfield?

All the best
Baccardisprite
I am assuming a long term career interest in the field. None of these schools is a truly big name apart from Cranfield's program, which is quite well regarded. Why not try the GMAT/GRE again and try some of the biggest in the field - MIT's MLOG / ZLOG Program, Georgia Tech's ISYE school and Cranfield?

All the best
Baccardisprite

Hi,

I wrote GMAT twice and got 600 (2nd time)... So.... I am skeptical about trying GMAT once more.

Thanks,
Sriananth H
Hi, I wrote GMAT twice and got 600 (2nd time)... So.... I am skeptical about trying GMAT once more. Thanks,
Sriananth H


With a 70% from VIT (a very good Engineering School) + nearly 4 years with TCS/i2 - you can be more ambitious. I see nothing lacking in your profile for a top school apart from a super GMAT. If you're not inclined, then I'd recommend Cranfield (a strong M.Sc program), but it is a competitive program to get into and I wonder if 600 would be enough.

Take the time, prepare well for the GMAT and attempt with a 700+ target. Get professional help to prepare for the GMAT! You should be able to get that in a place like Bangalore.

All the best
Baccardisprite

Hi i am in a big problem regarding admission for my MBA in USA
My resume is weaK as i have just 15 year education and no wor experience but i want to go in September 2012..Also i am pretty late with my GMAT as i have my exam on 20th January...i think i'll geet above 650...What should i do? i Know i am not gonna get a very very good uni but i can compromise with that..Can you tell me the universities which accept 15year education+no wor ex+ my applications in February.

Also i'd like to now if there is anything else related to business which i can do in USA other than the MBA where i have a good chance of a better uni and it has a good value too..Please list the universities and courses for these too...
Thanks

1)US Unis look for 2 years experience minimum for MBA.
2)Recruiting scene is bad in the US/Europe. people are returning from M7 schools - HSWChi etc. My friends at London Business School & Oxford are returning too, so do the math about Tier 2 schools. Tier 2 US MBA won't hold much value, might as well go IIM/SPJain/MDI/FMS/Symbi/XLRI in that case.
3)Figure out what you want to do with your life/career in terms of geography, industry, profile before you commit years of your life, hard earned money/savings of your parents. Life's not a race where you need an MBA by 23.

From your post I figure you want to migrate/work abroad. Why not try for the MSc Management program at richard ivey school of business, university of western ontario canada (pre work experience). It is considered the HBS of Canada (best school in Canada), and you'll have access to all the on campus recruitment events, which mean higher chances of getting a job as opposed to a tier 2 US MBA. Also, post the degree, lesser visa issues, you get PR quickly and then citizenship. In the US you could consider the MMS at Duke Fuqua and the Master's in Engineering Mgmt programmes offered by Duke, Stanford, Cornell and Dartmouth

1)US Unis look for 2 years experience minimum for MBA.
2)Recruiting scene is bad in the US/Europe. people are returning from M7 schools - HSWChi etc. My friends at London Business School & Oxford are returning too, so do the math about Tier 2 schools. Tier 2 US MBA won't hold much value, might as well go IIM/SPJain/MDI/FMS/Symbi/XLRI in that case.
3)Figure out what you want to do with your life/career in terms of geography, industry, profile before you commit years of your life, hard earned money/savings of your parents. Life's not a race where you need an MBA by 23.

From your post I figure you want to migrate/work abroad. Why not try for the MSc Management program at richard ivey school of business, university of western ontario canada (pre work experience). It is considered the HBS of Canada (best school in Canada), and you'll have access to all the on campus recruitment events, which mean higher chances of getting a job as opposed to a tier 2 US MBA. Also, post the degree, lesser visa issues, you get PR quickly and then citizenship. In the US you could consider the MMS at Duke Fuqua and the Master's in Engineering Mgmt programmes offered by Duke, Stanford, Cornell and Dartmouth


What are my chances to get into Duke as i have a 15 year degree and expecting to get around 650 in the GMAT?..Will i get a good job after it?And im not much into Canada but what are my chances for IVEY if i want to go there..please explain me as i am in deep confusion

Also if i plan to go in sept 2013 with a 1-1.5 year experience and a gmat 650 then what are my chances to get into a very good MBA school?

What would you recommend me?

^^ I do not know. Fuqua is a top school, so I'm sure it must be competitive to get into. As an Indian, you could do with a better GMAT score (Indians at these schools usually have far higher GMAT scores). I don't think they accept 3 year degrees. The job market is bad, and as an Indian, it must be hard now. This is just hearsay, you might want to investigate further. Things might improve later. I guess you might have a decent shot at Ivey's MSc in Management.

But the problem, as I see it is the 'deep confusion'. What is it about? If you explore some of the wisdom on this thread, you'll find people talk about how life's not a race, hence, there is no need to be in a rush. You're just 20. Figure out what you want to do with your life and career. Treat education as a means to an end and not the end itself (despite what your relatives might say about 'finishing off education and settling down' - they haven't a clue about US MBAs in that case). Economic crashes have been occurring throughout history, it is not the end of the world. Things are bound to improve. Just make sure you're well equipped to jump on the bandwagon when it comes.

^^ I do not know. Fuqua is a top school, so I'm sure it must be competitive to get into. As an Indian, you could do with a better GMAT score (Indians at these schools usually have far higher GMAT scores). I don't think they accept 3 year degrees. The job market is bad, and as an Indian, it must be hard now. This is just hearsay, you might want to investigate further. Things might improve later. I guess you might have a decent shot at Ivey's MSc in Management.

But the problem, as I see it is the 'deep confusion'. What is it about? If you explore some of the wisdom on this thread, you'll find people talk about how life's not a race, hence, there is no need to be in a rush. You're just 20. Figure out what you want to do with your life and career. Treat education as a means to an end and not the end itself (despite what your relatives might say about 'finishing off education and settling down' - they haven't a clue about US MBAs in that case). Economic crashes have been occurring throughout history, it is not the end of the world. Things are bound to improve. Just make sure you're well equipped to jump on the bandwagon when it comes.


Thanks a lot..Does Ivey take 15 year education? and with around 650..i hope you're right about me having a good chance..is Hult's Masters program as good as DuKe's or is hult not a very good school?
Also if i plan to go in sept 2013 with a 1-1.5 year experience and a gmat 650 then what are my chances to get into a very good MBA school?

DUke>Hult.

I'm not sure if Ivey accepts 3 year long bachelor's degrees, but if I'm not mistaken Canada does run 3 year long UG programs in which case it should accept it.

Why're you assuming you can't score higher than 650? MBA admissions are very subjective, they depend on how you craft your essays & your life story, how well that fits in with the school culture. Schools like to maintain balanced classes where diversity is maintained (in terms of nationalities represented, professions, backgrounds etc). This is a reason why Indian IT Males face insane competition. So if you're.. say a female social worker from Colombia, you definitely don't face as much competition. I've heard of hedge fund managers (Portfolio Mgrs) with spotless records (straight As private school, ivy undergrad, buy side finance post that) getting rejected by Harvard. ofcourse, I doubt the reason they got rejected were the lack of credential,s perhaps they wanted to balance their class out a little more. At the end of the day it is very subjective, and from what my friends at top schools around the world tell me, the class profile is incredibly diverse. You need to find your USP and craft your application such that it fits with the school's culture (as far as I know).

PS : If you're at Ivey next year, I might just be your classmate 😉

DUke>Hult.

I'm not sure if Ivey accepts 3 year long bachelor's degrees, but if I'm not mistaken Canada does run 3 year long UG programs in which case it should accept it.

Why're you assuming you can't score higher than 650? MBA admissions are very subjective, they depend on how you craft your essays & your life story, how well that fits in with the school culture. Schools like to maintain balanced classes where diversity is maintained (in terms of nationalities represented, professions, backgrounds etc). This is a reason why Indian IT Males face insane competition. So if you're.. say a female social worker from Colombia, you definitely don't face as much competition. I've heard of hedge fund managers (Portfolio Mgrs) with spotless records (straight As private school, ivy undergrad, buy side finance post that) getting rejected by Harvard. ofcourse, I doubt the reason they got rejected were the lack of credential,s perhaps they wanted to balance their class out a little more. At the end of the day it is very subjective, and from what my friends at top schools around the world tell me, the class profile is incredibly diverse. You need to find your USP and craft your application such that it fits with the school's culture (as far as I know).

PS : If you're at Ivey next year, I might just be your classmate ;)


Haha..hope we both are there..
i know i am being irritating but please lemme know if i go in sept 2013 with around 1-1.5 year work ex then do i have a good chance to get into top schools with a 650+ for MBA? because i have heard that 2 years is what they prefer at least
Hi i am in a big problem regarding admission for my MBA in USA. My resume is weaK as i have just 15 year education and no wor experience but i want to go in September 2012..Also i am pretty late with my GMAT as i have my exam on 20th January...i think i'll geet above 650...What should i do? i Know i am not gonna get a very very good uni but i can compromise with that..Can you tell me the universities which accept 15year education+no wor ex+ my applications in February.

Also i'd like to now if there is anything else related to business which i can do in USA other than the MBA where i have a good chance of a better uni and it has a good value too..Please list the universities and courses for these too...
Thanks


To answer your question - check the websites of the schools to see if they accept a 15 year education. Many US Schools do, many don't. Only one way to find out is to write to them.

My opinion is that unless you have done something professionally spectacular in the last 3-4 years of your life (something truly transformational for society) your chances of acceptance in any Top 30 school with a 650 and 1.5 or less years of experience - are low to nil. The reason why most schools explicitly prefer a largest % of their MBA entrants (there are a "few" stellar fresher grads) to have 2-3 years of experience (top schools average 4-6) is

*the ability to understand & assimilate the language of business better, *contribute at least something beyond business buzzwords in class (although it does degenerate to buzzwords at times), and
*be attractive to future employers (75% of the reasons to employ any MBA out of b.school is pre-MBA experience).

You could go for the Masters in Management at Ivy, but would you go there simply to get out of India and attend an MBA or M.Mgmt or would you do this as part of some wider career plan?

And Rust In Peace asks you the right question - Why are you in such a rush? Why wouldn't you want to work? What makes you think 1.5 years + an MBA is the best solution to enable your long term career?

Think and post again.
Baccardisprite

plz help me regarding this..

is it worth going abroad to do mba without having any work ex??..
i hv passed engg in june 2011 and currently doing 1 year pgdbm course..which will over in june 2012...

harshalgandhi Says
plz help me regarding this.. is it worth going abroad to do mba without having any work ex??.. i hv passed engg in june 2011 and currently doing 1 year pgdbm course..which will over in june 2012...


Going by evidence, perception and experience - the answer is No!

All the best
Baccardisprite
Hi, considering my current career stagnation i am in need of some immediate advice regarding various career options available to me and thus i am really looking forward on this thread!!

A brief about my profile (pls help me in rating my profile, critics appreciated)
  1. Xth : 86% (ICSE)
  2. XII: 90% (ISC) -College topper (The only strong point i suppose)
  3. B.Tech: 8.34 (VIT:Electrical)

Work-ex:
July '09 - April-'10 (10 months): In steel industry as electrical engineer-Project site exp-Changed the job (not liking the place and also to prepare for mba exams)
May'10-Oct'11 (1.5 yrs): In IT services (Nothing gr8 to mention about it).
Doing nothing from Nov'11. Almost sure of not getting admits in good indian mba colgs this yr!
Now when 2011 is almost over and i look back on my 2 yr of career i find myself without any decent profile of mine!!..Currently i am just sure of couple of things which i dont want to do but is really confused with what all options i have now and where can i turn my career so that i can bring it back on track ASAP!
a) I don't want to make a career in IT for myself.(May be because i find it too generic!)
b) Thinking of international education but currently i think i have missed the deadlines for all the good courses for Fall'12.(Considering i haven't written GMAT).Also i am not much aware of what all progs are suitable for a mixed profile like this (Some options on this will be gr
c) With almost 2.1 yr of exp now i am gradually losing interest in regular 2 yr prog at Indian mba colg (Not talking about top 10) .However considering my small core work-ex and little-bit of interest in Supply chain/ Process oriented works, i think i can make my career in this field. But again my little work ex comes as a hurdle...
Now, should i search again for a job and wait for a year preparing for gmat or should i join an international reputed non-mba progs like master of manag or MSc kinds? (But here my dilemma is i don't want to take up a job in IT again and not sure of getting a job like that of a research analyst. Also this might add a 3rd domain to my career and might weaken up my chances while writing my SOPs later). Do you also think apart from SCM/ops related course there is any other course which might be suitable for me?

I know it will be very hard to suggest something for confused guys like me who have changed his job so frequently, but still i am sure you experts will surely help me in chalking out a better career plan for me and help me in streamlining my thought process to take up a career plan with utmost grit and determination....
Thanks for being patient in reading this long post :)
Hi, considering my current career stagnation i am in need of some immediate advice regarding various career options available to me and thus i am really looking forward on this thread!!

A brief about my profile (pls help me in rating my profile, critics appreciated)
  1. Xth : 86% (ICSE)
  2. XII: 90% (ISC) -College topper (The only strong point i suppose)
  3. B.Tech: 8.34 (VIT:Electrical)

Work-ex:
July '09 - April-'10 (10 months): In steel industry as electrical engineer-Project site exp-Changed the job (not liking the place and also to prepare for mba exams)
May'10-Oct'11 (1.5 yrs): In IT services (Nothing gr8 to mention about it).
Doing nothing from Nov'11. Almost sure of not getting admits in good indian mba colgs this yr! Now when 2011 is almost over and i look back on my 2 yr of career i find myself without any decent profile of mine!!..Currently i am just sure of couple of things which i dont want to do but is really confused with what all options i have now and where can i turn my career so that i can bring it back on track ASAP!
a) I don't want to make a career in IT for myself.(May be because i find it too generic!)
b) Thinking of international education but currently i think i have missed the deadlines for all the good courses for Fall'12.(Considering i haven't written GMAT).Also i am not much aware of what all progs are suitable for a mixed profile like this (Some options on this will be gr
c) With almost 2.1 yr of exp now i am gradually losing interest in regular 2 yr prog at Indian mba colg (Not talking about top 10) .However considering my small core work-ex and little-bit of interest in Supply chain/ Process oriented works, i think i can make my career in this field. But again my little work ex comes as a hurdle...
Now, should i search again for a job and wait for a year preparing for gmat or should i join an international reputed non-mba progs like master of manag or MSc kinds? (But here my dilemma is i don't want to take up a job in IT again and not sure of getting a job like that of a research analyst. Also this might add a 3rd domain to my career and might weaken up my chances while writing my SOPs later). Do you also think apart from SCM/ops related course there is any other course which might be suitable for me?

I know it will be very hard to suggest something for confused guys like me who have changed his job so frequently, but still i am sure you experts will surely help me in chalking out a better career plan for me and help me in 0streamlining my thought process to take up a career plan with utmost grit and determination....Thanks for being patient in reading this long post :)


You're right about being confused :-). What stagnation.... 23 years old and stagnating already???

Search for a job again, learn something from it, achieve success and some skills and functional competency. Employers of MBAs graduating from b-schools abroad look for some specific functional skills first, your ability to first contribute, then on your potential seen through education (MBA or whatever).

If not IT, then what? SCM/Processes? Look for a role that's in this space. You're still young enough to get into the Management Trainee program of several corporates.

Don't see education as an escape from your current circumstances.

All the best
Baccardisprite
You're right about being confused :-). What stagnation.... 23 years old and stagnating already???

Search for a job again, learn something from it, achieve success and some skills and functional competency. Employers of MBAs graduating from b-schools abroad look for some specific functional skills first, your ability to first contribute, then on your potential seen through education (MBA or whatever).

If not IT, then what? SCM/Processes? Look for a role that's in this space. You're still young enough to get into the Management Trainee program of several corporates.

Don't see education as an escape from your current circumstances.

All the best
Baccardisprite


Thanks a lot for this..Seriously appreciate your words..However,do you think that taking up a new job in a new domain now will at least take two-three years to build a strong profile and thus it might be a bit late?
For various courses abroad, generally whats the criteria for admit..Do they consider only the job experience and ones academics excellency comes only after that? Or is it like if a person is able to prove his interest and ability to excel in any particular course, he might hold a chance of getting admit.
Also though it's off topic but since u mentioned it, can u pls suggest me some good site/corporate names where i can look for jobs related to SCM/processes or of MTs at this stage?
Thanks
Thanks a lot for this..Seriously appreciate your words..However,do you think that taking up a new job in a new domain now will at least take two-three years to build a strong profile and thus it might be a bit late? For various courses abroad, generally whats the criteria for admit..Do they consider only the job experience and ones academics excellency comes only after that? Or is it like if a person is able to prove his interest and ability to excel in any particular course, he might hold a chance of getting admit.
Also though it's off topic but since u mentioned it, can u pls suggest me some good site/corporate names where i can look for jobs related to SCM/processes or of MTs at this stage?
Thanks


Masters Programs abroad consider a combination of many things. Well reputed MBAs sell themselves on educating people with at least 4-5 years professional experience pre-MBA, then releasing them into the job market with commercial skills to complement technical / functional / operational competencies. However, the operational / functional / technical competencies are the major reasons why companies come to recruit. Entry and selection to good MBA program is an indication of the person's potential, while the reputation of the program is partially built on academic quality.

M.Sc's teach functional / operational skills in various business disciplines, to people with 0-3 years of experience fairly early on in a career. These programs sell themselves on releasing people with reasonable functional skills early on into the job market.

Yes, if you take up a new job now, it will take you 2-3 years to build a profile that a b-school and a post MBA profile might value. That's the nature of the beast and you have go through with it. After working for 2-3 years longer, you'd be 27-28 and at the right age to make the transition to an MBA, then hopefully on to a successful post MBA career.

Check out operational and SCM jobs in FMCG, Automotive, other manufacturing, merchandizing, Retail, Shipping, Logistics and Transport. All of these would be reasonably competitive industries, which means the Operations and SCM functions would have reasonably good profiles, translating into career progression and learning. Try Maersk - Home and check out their graduate careers website. Nearly all the major Indian Gov orgs have a major GET/MT program (IOCL, HPCL, BPCL, BHEL, HAL, MUL, NTPC, NPCL, Coal India, SAIL, GAIL). See if you can get into a smaller company (like a late-stage start-up company) where your functional responsibilities therefore potential for career progress is greater.

All the best
Baccardisprite