International educational options beyond the MBA

MBA
1182
Hello to all the consultants taking time out and answering people's queries here. You are doing a great job. Cheers. The reason I post is that I too along with so many other confused souls here, need your help/advice.

About me.
I am currently in my Second year in Shaheed Bhagat Singh College, Delhi University pursuing B.A (Hons) Economics. I scored 70% in my First Year and was the college topper.

10th- 96.6%
12th-91.6%

Another addition (maybe) to my profile would be that I secured admission to University College London in the UK for Bsc Economics. (Rated 4th best in the world by the QS Rankings)

I have decent extra-curriculars. (Involved with an NGO, did an internship in Reliance Life last year, will probably do a couple more this year, am a good orator and writer and have numerous school-level certificates)

Now, I am preparing for CAT this year. If I get a good %ile and get into a Top 10 college, well and good. If not, then I would like you to please realistically evaluate my chances at some of the Top Pre-experience Master's programs in the UK and elsewhere. Specifically, Master's in Management at LBS, Mfin at LSE, MFE at Oxford etc.

I will give my GMAT this year in the summer vacations and expect a decent enough score (Above 700 at the very least).

What do you think is my chance of making it into one of these programs. The thing that proves to be of the greatest deterrent to me is my college, Shaheed Bhagat Singh. Although a part of DU, I realize it has almost zero brand value compared to the likes of SRCC, St. Stephen's etc. So provided I maintain a good academic record (Above 70), do you think I can get into these programs?

I am also applying to the YLP at ISB this year.

So, if you could, please take some out and assess my chances at these universities? If I have a low probability of making it, I'll probably just buck up my CAT preparations even more as the placement scene in my college is pathetic.

Thanks in advance and regards,
Shubham Agarwal.


A couple of pointers. I'm from BITS Pilani. I have friends who're struggling to get interview calls, leave alone offers at LSE, LBS MiM & Oxford Said MFE. It is safe to say that the European job market is definitely not the place to be as an Indian as of now.

I was going through the same dilemma a year ago, and I decided to work in India for a bit before moving abroad for further education (I'm targeting the CEMS MIM).

If you keep your eyes and ears open, lurk around and network a bit on LinkedIn, talk to the right people, you might just end up surprising yourself.

If you're interested in Finance, why not start on the CFA in the meantime (I don't know how helpful it will be for IBanking or M&A;, but still it gives you an edge).
1183
@baccardisprite and other knowledgeable puys,

would anyone throw some light on MS in analytics at North Carolina?
how good is the course and what it holds from students from India(with a work ex in IT for 2 and a half years :))

Thanks


Why do you want to do an MS in Analytics when Analytics firms are hiring raw talent and training them in relevant areas?
1184

Hi baccardisprite,

This is my first post on this thread although I have been a regular on PG for quite some time now. This is specifically regarding the following question:

Applying for PhD in Business (Marketing) to Universities in USA & Canada.

Before going further let me give you a brief about me:

1. BTech from NIT Allahabad and PGDM from IMT Ghaziabad (2011 batch)

2. Currently 28 months of experience. Working in Services Marketing in Wipro since June 2011

3. Grades 10th 12th are 92% & 82% respectively. Engineering grades are 6.93/10 (No rankings available but certainly not among top 10%). MBA grades - 7.31/10 (78% in percentage)

4. To be noted - Have done a lot of research work during my MBA days - attended Exchange prgram to a UK University which had 'Research Paper' mode of evaluation so worked on 4 such papers apart from research projects at IMT-G.

5. Was and still am associated with Zenesys Consulting (Crowdsourced consulting company) and have worked on research projects.

6. Have contributed White papers to Wipro Knowledge DB K-Net and awarded K-Ace for the same. (K=Knowledge)

Now, with the above background in mind, I would like to state that:

1. I love doing research. Process of studying data, analysing, going back to theory but then coming back again to solve a problem - intrigues me, fascinates me and can keep me engrossed for days.

2. I want the freedom of an Academic life. I want the independence to investigate the line of thought or introspection that I want to see further, research further etc.

3. I will be giving my GMAT this May and would be applying post that.

4. I already have a rough research proposal/proposals ready considering the field (Marketing) and the lines of research I would like to explore.

Based on above, I would request you to help me out in the following areas:

1. Does this profile suit a PhD application?

2. If not, what needs improvement (that can be improved)?

3. If yes, what else is needed to be done to further my candidature?

4. Is there anything I am missing here which you know and would like to add?


Would be looking forward to your reply.

Regards,
Abhishek (BeasT)

1185


Applying for PhD in Business (Marketing) to Universities in USA & Canada.

Before going further let me give you a brief about me:

1. BTech from NIT Allahabad and PGDM from IMT Ghaziabad (2011 batch)
2. Currently 28 months of experience. Working in Services Marketing in Wipro since June 2011
3. Grades 10th 12th are 92% & 82% respectively. Engineering grades are 6.93/10 (No rankings available but certainly not among top 10%). MBA grades - 7.31/10 (78% in percentage)
4. To be noted - Have done a lot of research work during my MBA days - attended Exchange prgram to a UK University which had 'Research Paper' mode of evaluation so worked on 4 such papers apart from research projects at IMT-G.
5. Was and still am associated with Zenesys Consulting (Crowdsourced consulting company) and have worked on research projects.
6. Have contributed White papers to Wipro Knowledge DB K-Net and awarded K-Ace for the same. (K=Knowledge)

Now, with the above background in mind, I would like to state that:

1. I love doing research. Process of studying data, analysing, going back to theory but then coming back again to solve a problem - intrigues me, fascinates me and can keep me engrossed for days.
2. I want the freedom of an Academic life. I want the independence to investigate the line of thought or introspection that I want to see further, research further etc.
3. I will be giving my GMAT this May and would be applying post that.
4. I already have a rough research proposal/proposals ready considering the field (Marketing) and the lines of research I would like to explore.

Based on above, I would request you to help me out in the following areas:

1. Does this profile suit a PhD application?
2. If not, what needs improvement (that can be improved)?
3. If yes, what else is needed to be done to further my candidature?
4. Is there anything I am missing here which you know and would like to add?

Would be looking forward to your reply.
Regards,
Abhishek (BeasT)



This is a post I wrote several months ago. Please go through it. It's rather generic advice, but may help you plan.

To answer your questions:

1. I would say yes, you could apply for a PhD with a profile like yours.

As important as having a research proposal is to ensure your suggested proposal to some extent matches the research interests of the faculty in the school you want to apply to. Reason - Ph.Ds are not just students, they're also paid researchers. A Ph.D is an expensive investment for a top b-school - $25-35K in GRA funds over & above free tuition for a minimum of 4 years. So the matching of research interests with faculty research interest is to ensure at least some return on this investment.

Also, it's a very competitive game. A typical Ph.D student body in a top b-school will be as low as 50, with a selectivity of 1/15 to1/40; and unlike an MBA a large majority of applicants would be "very good" and fulfil all of the academic criteria, after which selection is rather subjective and qualitative.

Your area needs to be somewhat unique, but should be able to at least partially address questions they're asking through their current research. Chances are (more often than not) you will be politely told that your area of intended research is either of no interest, not unique enough or is being carried out already by a faculty or current Ph.D student. Be ready to face some disappointment in this regard. A few of such contacts will lead to an informal yet more concrete discussion around what you could bring to the school and department. Those are the ones you will need to carefully cultivate.

2. A few things are within your control.

- GMAT, nothing less than sky-ing it will do.... 750-770..
- To hedge your bets, give the GRE, and aim for a 750Q, 700V split.
- Recommendations must articulate not only superb academic & analytic ability, but also the competence to top conduct independent (or minimally supervised) empirical research, the sharpness to absorb, use, communicate (or generate) new concepts...
- Continue researching, publishing and writing... The more prestigious the publication carrying your stuff, the better and more verifiable.

3. (Very) Patiently research the top b-schools in USA (top 20) and Canada (stay with Ivey, Rotman, Queens and Schulich), and find out by contacting the academic department coordinator / current Ph.D student / faculty (in that order) to understand what the school's marketing unit and its faculty are researching. This is going to take you a year, perhaps 2, but be patient and diligent - for this is the greatest test while IN the Ph.D :-).

4. Only one piece of advice - don't fall into the trap of stretch & safe school like most MBA aspirants.

The Ph.D programs of all of the Top schools in the US and Canada will be very competitive to get in; the faculty & research group will all have top notch Ph.Ds of their own; and graduates from each of these 20-25 schools will be in demand just about everywhere as its a good job market for Top school Ph.Ds. Also, you won't be in too much debt (due to your GRA). Overall you can afford to go with the school that wants you and where you will feel most comfortable working, researching and living. Don't listen to or care for any peripheral nonsense like MBA aspirants do. Just diligently follow your path.

Stay motivated.
All the best
Baccardisprite
1186

Hi baccardisprite,

I had applied to the ESADE full-time MBA program and I have got waitlisted. the email that I received was very open-ended. Now do I provide the admissions committee with some additional info like an additonal LOR/essay? How do I go about this and what should I focus on now so that I can get off the waitlist.

thanks,

mbagirl2012

1187
Hi baccardisprite,

I had applied to the ESADE full-time MBA program and I have got waitlisted. the email that I received was very open-ended. Now do I provide the admissions committee with some additional info like an additonal LOR/essay? How do I go about this and what should I focus on now so that I can get off the waitlist.

thanks,

mbagirl2012


By open ended, I assume there was no deadline or time-period by which they got back to you (correct me if wrong). Did the letter also ask explicitly whether / not you would like to stay on the wait-list?

Don't see the wait-list as a negative, because the school has seen some positives so they have not outright declined your application.

Don't rush, take a critical look at your profile and think carefully about what gaps "you" might see, as if you were an independent / objective observer or adcomm member. This is NOT supposed to be a speculative exercise, so take an end-2-end look at various parameters:

- Academic record & GMAT - is your academic record solid, from at least a reasonably well known university in India. Is your GMAT above average for the school. When you have limited experience (
- Work experience & Career Goals - Are you seeking a change across "all" the elements of your career. These elements are - function, industry and geography. I read some of your old posts to me on this thread, and it seemed you were keen on consulting (still?). IF you have stated a goal in your essays to get into consulting after the MBA, and you were dispassionately evaluating your own CV, would you hire yourself with 2 years of experience + an MBA? Secondly, has your career seen a rise superior or faster than your peers who joined the same company / role? Have you achieved something in your job, that you might have forgotten to add in the application?

One major yet unwritten criterion for b-school adcomms is the "recruitability" of a candidate into his/her chosen career & job. You have less control on this area, versus the GMAT part. But in a communication (some-time from now), you might want to mention your determination to actively seek career opportunities both from on-campus and off-campus activities.

- Other x-factors like diversity: One of the reasons that the school might have waitlisted you is to manage the diversity of the class as well. A LOT of Indians apply to the EU schools, and many might have profiles similar to yours. It does help that you are a female applicant, so they have rather put you on a wait-list, than outright decline.

1. Send them a brief note in a few days, thanking them for the communication, and state your interest to pursue the program, and you anticipate to stay in touch again in a few days / weeks.

2. Wait for a month or so, in the interim attempt the GMAT again, try scoring around 700, see what your annual performance appraisal was like, and any career / compensation rises that come in April (new FY in India), and communicate these to ESADE, letting them know 2 things:

- you are actively improving your profile, and
- you're still serious about the program

No guarantees, but adcomms are known to appreciate respectful persistence from wait-listed candidates.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1188
By open ended, I assume there was no deadline or time-period by which they got back to you (correct me if wrong). Did the letter also ask explicitly whether / not you would like to stay on the wait-list?

Don't see the wait-list as a negative, because the school has seen some positives so they have not outright declined your application.

Don't rush, take a critical look at your profile and think carefully about what gaps "you" might see, as if you were an independent / objective observer or adcomm member. This is NOT supposed to be a speculative exercise, so take an end-2-end look at various parameters:

- Academic record & GMAT - is your academic record solid, from at least a reasonably well known university in India. Is your GMAT above average for the school. When you have limited experience (
- Work experience & Career Goals - Are you seeking a change across "all" the elements of your career. These elements are - function, industry and geography. I read some of your old posts to me on this thread, and it seemed you were keen on consulting (still?). IF you have stated a goal in your essays to get into consulting after the MBA, and you were dispassionately evaluating your own CV, would you hire yourself with 2 years of experience + an MBA? Secondly, has your career seen a rise superior or faster than your peers who joined the same company / role? Have you achieved something in your job, that you might have forgotten to add in the application?

One major yet unwritten criterion for b-school adcomms is the "recruitability" of a candidate into his/her chosen career & job. You have less control on this area, versus the GMAT part. But in a communication (some-time from now), you might want to mention your determination to actively seek career opportunities both from on-campus and off-campus activities.

- Other x-factors like diversity: One of the reasons that the school might have waitlisted you is to manage the diversity of the class as well. A LOT of Indians apply to the EU schools, and many might have profiles similar to yours. It does help that you are a female applicant, so they have rather put you on a wait-list, than outright decline.

1. Send them a brief note in a few days, thanking them for the communication, and state your interest to pursue the program, and you anticipate to stay in touch again in a few days / weeks.

2. Wait for a month or so, in the interim attempt the GMAT again, try scoring around 700, see what your annual performance appraisal was like, and any career / compensation rises that come in April (new FY in India), and communicate these to ESADE, letting them know 2 things:

- you are actively improving your profile, and
- you're still serious about the program

No guarantees, but adcomms are known to appreciate respectful persistence from wait-listed candidates.

All the best
Baccardisprite




Thanks baccardisprite. but I have given my GMAT again and I have scored 710. Also, I have been waitlisted even prior to the interview. Ideally schools waitlist you after the interview call etc..but here based on my application, I have been waitlisted. So in this situation, do I provide them with an additional letter of reference? Or should I draft an essay stating the improvements in my application?
1189

For students who want to get a job immediately after their graduation or specialization, could enroll for a professional courses that will give them the skills that make them employable. Ideally, they could enroll for a distance learning course or an online course and complete. This gives them the an added advantage of having two qualifications and increases their chance to get a job or advance their career. For those who want to set-up their own business, skills courses for enhancing their finance skills, management skills, communication skills could also be quite helpful. The benefit of these courses is that they have short durations, they are give you practical experience, they are targeted to enhancing specific skills and the best part is that you can schedule the tutorials as per your convenience. What more could you ask for!

1190
mbagirl2012 Says
Thanks baccardisprite. but I have given my GMAT again and I have scored 710. Also, I have been waitlisted even prior to the interview. Ideally schools waitlist you after the interview call etc..but here based on my application, I have been waitlisted. So in this situation, do I provide them with an additional letter of reference? Or should I draft an essay stating the improvements in my application?


You're right, schools would normally interview before wait-listing.

Guess this school wants to see its applicant pool before interviewing you, in which case, I guess you'll simply need to send them your new GMAT score, which they should appreciate. You could send them a little note like I suggested before and intimate them that they would receive your revised GMAT score.

Wait for a couple of weeks, then politely ask them again what they intend to do with your candidacy. Then take the next step, including perhaps having another LOR sent to them.

You'll have to develop some patience on this one.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1191

@Baccardisprite...awesome work :)

I am quite new to PG .. so just remind me if i am not doing something right ... the reason i tell you this is because i did not get any reply when i posted the same query in a few other threads...


I completed my B.tech in computer science engineering with 64% aggregate and have been working at Infosys as a Systems Engineer for the past 3 years.I was initially in the banking domain and had a 7 month stint at Nigeria implementing a project for a bank there. I have currently moved on to the Retail domain, as part of "the testing new waters" approach and since i found banking kind of boring. I had initially joined the company to gain experience to get into a proper MBA/MS(management) program abroad. And now i think it is time to work towards that.I am planning for a 2013 admit. I have not fixed on any particular destination as such but i am slightly biased towards europe(france/spain/germany) and US.

I found operations/supply chain management specialisation somewhat to my liking after reading about it.And there are some very good companies that i would like to end up working for in that domain.I am very confused from the overload of information available in the net.It would be very helpful if anyone could answer a few of my questions.

1)I am currently working in Kerala(Trivandrum).There isn't any good GMAT training centres to my knowledge out here. So could you recommend me a good online GMAT prep course? Also any further info on preparation strategies are welcome.

2)I came upon a list of Triple Accredited B-Schools. Is this triple accreditation over rated?If not, is it very hard to get into one of those?I found some schhols in france like "ROUEN" with triple accreditation. I found the course fees there within my budget but have not heard any mention of the school anywhere in my circle.(90% chance that i am ignorant )

3)What is the difference between Operations Management and Supply chain management.In some places Operations is defined as a subset of supply chain and in others its the opposite.

4)Though i know that a masters should not be approached with just the ROI in mind, which do you think is a worthwhile course MS in supply chain or operations / MBA with specialisation in operations or supply chain. I come from a middle class family and could do with a few less zeroes in the educational loan.

5)It would be helpful if any of you could recommend a few b-schools that offer very good courses in operations or supply chain.Which destination do you think suits my preferred course- Europe or US

Thanks in advance.

My profile
Ajmal Ali Haneef,
CBSE 10th - 89%
CBSE 12th - 82%
Btech CSE - 64%
Infosys - 3 years and counting(Domain- Banking , Retail)
6 months onsite stint at Nigeria(as for international exposure)

Giving GMAT this june 2nd ... hope to get a good score...

thx in advance ...

1192
Hi All, I am having 5 yrs of experience in software industry. I am also a GMAT 2012 aspirant from DELHI but i need your input in profile evaluation because this is a big concern for me:

10th:68%
12th:69%
B.Sc:69% (Distance learning program from Sikkim manipal university)
MCA:68% (Distance learning program from Sikkim manipal university)

At that time i didn't understand the impact of Distance courses so did it but now paying for and it can't be corrected becz it's past. My concern is my distance courses will be considered by Indian as well as overseas colleges or not???Specially in US because there minimum requirement is 16Yrs of regular study. Will it also impact my placement because some of the IT giants don't consider distance courses such as TCS, Infosys, Wipro, CTS, Amdocs, Accenture..... and so many? Please reply because nowhere i am getting clarification on it... Thanks,
Abhishek


If Sikkim Manipal University is a recognized (if not very known) university within the UGC system, then you have a degree period, that hopefully makes it explicit that it is the same degree you would have received had you attended full-time. Hopefully you had to pass exams, evaluations, and projects to get your degree.

Did you have clear rationale to do your Bachelor's and Masters by Distance learning? Were there over-riding personal circumstances that led you down this path? As long as you share a clear rationale why you had to do what you did, and of course its a recognized degree; go ahead and give it a shot.

Is software / IT the only career you can think of after the MBA?

Think and post again
Baccardisprite
1193


1)I am currently working in Kerala(Trivandrum).There isn't any good GMAT training centres to my knowledge out here. So could you recommend me a good online GMAT prep course? Also any further info on preparation strategies are welcome.

2)I came upon a list of Triple Accredited B-Schools. Is this triple accreditation over rated?If not, is it very hard to get into one of those?I found some schhols in france like "ROUEN" with triple accreditation. I found the course fees there within my budget but have not heard any mention of the school anywhere in my circle.(90% chance that i am ignorant )

3)What is the difference between Operations Management and Supply chain management.In some places Operations is defined as a subset of supply chain and in others its the opposite.

4)Though i know that a masters should not be approached with just the ROI in mind, which do you think is a worthwhile course MS in supply chain or operations / MBA with specialisation in operations or supply chain. I come from a middle class family and could do with a few less zeroes in the educational loan.

5)It would be helpful if any of you could recommend a few b-schools that offer very good courses in operations or supply chain.Which destination do you think suits my preferred course- Europe or US



This is a free forum, and everyone who dishes the advice out on this forum does it on their personal time and availability. What drives us all is the desire and intent to help people like yourself. I myself have to go days / weeks without responding when I don't have time to access the forum. So please be patient when posting your queries, and avoid posting them on multiple threads.

Now to your questions:

1. Go to the GMAT section of this forum and ask a poster called psychodementia for guidance around GMAT.

2. A lot of schools boast the "triple crown" of AACSB, AMBA and EQUIS accreditations. These are indicators of academic quality, not necessarily of the success the school's graduates might have in the immediately served job market. ESC Rouen largely serves France, and to a smaller extent Western Europe. It's a 2/3rd tier school in the EU at best. The most well known EU schools are INSEAD, LBS, IMD, IESE, IE, ESADE, Said-Oxford, Judge-Cambridge, Cranfield, HEC, RSM and a few more that make up the Top 10-12. The best schools are not just about accreditation and academic quality. They also (most importantly) have strong & active Alumni in all industries, and a very good career services office that is able to do 2 things:

a) arrange for companies to visit campus and present to MBAs
b) train the MBAs to conduct an effective job search off-campus

3. You're quite right :-). It can get confusing! It gets worse when companies have sub-definitions like "marketing operations" or even "sales operations".

Without a debate - I would call the supply chain the over-arching definition.
A supply chain (a wider definition is "value-chain") is every physical movement & handling from feedstock to intermediate conversion, raw material, spare parts and machinery purchasing, manufacturing (yes, the factories), finished product packaging & customization, transportation and distribution - from origin to customer! Each of these steps includes its driving and enabling components. The operational driving components would something like Logistics Management, Planning, Tactical procurement, manufacturing & distribution. Teh critical strategic / tactical enabling components would be Strategic Sourcing, IT systems, D & S Planning, Project / Program management, Operational Excellence (including Lean six-sigma & stuff), finance, and (for large SC organizations) HR and legal support.

4. I would look less at the degree's name, and more at what it offers in terms of various parameters, the foremost amongst them the opportunity to access a job market with the kind of employment opportunities you will seek; and what skills and education you need to learn in order to access that job market. You're still at an early career level, so a more expensive MBA is not likely to drive a greater career jump at this stage - as you don't have the extensive supply chain experience to offer a tangible contribution in a mid-senior role. You will need to get into the function at a fairly junior/mid role, in a more sub-specialist area of the broad supply chain that I've described.

In India - the best school is NITIE in Mumbai. It's slightly niche, in that people largely go into operations, supply chain and (associated) consulting. If you want a cost effective education and a near-guaranteed entry into the junior executive supply chain ranks in an industrial company - this is the school to go to. See the recruiter list and you'll know. IIT Kanpur has a strong Masters in Industrial and Management Engineering Program which you might want to consider. It's acquiring a seriously good reputation now. It's a path of lower resistance that might definitely lead to an international career if you join an MNC or Global Consulting firm with a strong SC / operations practice.

Abroad - it gets a little more challenging - you can do the MBA or an MS, it depends on the school offered. What I normally suggest to people looking for such education outside India is to look for (particularly in the US) programs attached to Universities having both a strong business school and a strong engineering school - so the MBAs / Masters programs offered by MIT, Cornell, Michigan, Illinois-Urbana, Maryland-College Park, Georgia-Tech, Berkeley etc... While in the UK/EU, the best known M.Sc in Operations, Supply Chain management would be at Cranfield, TU Delft (Holland) and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETHZ). Of course, this is a more challenging path as you will not experience "placements" like you do in India (as you will need to do a lot more to find a job) and will compete with equally or better qualified, asier to recruit, and culturally more aware local/EU candidates.

5. Have answered above.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1194
In this post I will focus on (International) professional accounting and financial qualifications.

Many countries have their own Chartered accounting qualification(s), like India has it's CA & CWA. With differences between these national qualifications based primarily on accounting, audit, financial reporting and tax related national regulations, these qualifications essentially teach you the same things - starting with basic accounting, economics, business law going on to local / international taxation, financial reporting & information systems, performance / decision management, and finally leading to broader organizational aspects, business strategy and corporate finance.

In terms of a fairly all encompassing all round financial education (accounting and corporate finance), there're very few qualifications that can actually beat professional / chartered accounting.

In terms of global reach, recognition and acceptability - the UK's 3 main accounting certificates

ACCA (Association of Chartered Certified Accountants, Glasgow - ACCA - the global body for professional accountants),

CIMA (Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, London - CIMA - Chartered Institute of Management Accountants) and

ICAEW (Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales - ICAEW)

- are broadly accepted all across the commonwealth as a symbol of proficiency and evidence of having gone through a fairly tough academic regimen, which along with rigorous experience qualify you for most financial roles at the same level as MBAs (in fact more).

For those of you who are already qualified CAs or are getting there, and if you have international ambitions, it would be particularly advisable to register yourself for and complete one of either ACCA or CIMA, so when you seek opportunity abroad (with or without an MBA / other Master's qualification) you have globally recognized credential in the bag. Also, as an Indian CA or CWA, you're eligible for exemptions from several papers of ACCA / CIMA.

ACCA & CIMA have a long established presence predominantly in the commonwealth, with connections well estalished through the British Council + (in some cases) locally based tuition providers. While tuition provision in India is rather limited, the qualifications are designed for you to study on your own and give exams anywhere in the world where there's a British Council.... Hundreds take the exam in India.... Books / Study materials are locally sourceable (you can find information in the India specific menu of CIMA for example).

The next question obviously is the cost. I broadly estimate that giving the exams in India, studying in India and getting the certification should cost about INR 3-4 L (3500-4500 Pounds) spread over 3 -4 years.

Please surf the websites for more detailed information.

Good luck
Baccardisprite

next post - CFA

Hey, This is superb work!

Even i have been doing some research on alternate options to MBA. even though CFA is the next "go to" option i am really kicked about ACCA and CIMA.

Recently, i just happened to click on the ACCA ad and a with a little reading i can tell you that ACCA is one good course that everybody should know.

Similarly, CIMA, which focuses on Managerial accounting also seems to be a very good course.

The best thing about these courses is that the curriculum is thorough, they are internationally recognised, you can study at your own speed, you can take multiple exams and last but not the least it focus on wholesome development.

While my research on ACCA and CIMA i came across this interesting site called Courseking (CourseKing: UK Professional Courses for jobs. Study abroad or study from home) which lists and compares different colleges in the UK which offer ACCA and CIMA really interesting especially the live online ones.
1195

Seniors please offer some guidance in my case
My profile goes like this

xth --90.4%
xiith--82%
B.Tech -Electrical Engineering --74% in top 15 of class from a govt college
Research Work--
a)published one research paper in an international journal during my 3rd year
as independent researcher
b)another paper has been accepted for publication and is in process of being published Final year.

Good Extra curriculars on national level.

I am consistently scoring above 310 in my GRE mocks
and i am keen to pursue MS in Finance/Masters in mangt. from LSE,HEC paris,ETH .
1:- plz suggest some good institutes to pursue above courses.
2:- Does one need to his undergrad course in Economics or finance to pursue these courses .
3:- Is Prior work-ex necessary for these courses
4:- Should one belong to reputed indian colleges like IIT's,NIT's to be accepted.

I may sound naive but a good ROI is necessary because of financial restraints in my family.

Respect

1196

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1197
Hello puys, this is my first post in the site and would like some help and guidance on certain things
Something about Me:
I am based out of Erode (Tamil Nadu) currently managing our family business, further details below.
X - 81%
XII - 90%
BE - Major in ECE - 76%
Yet to take my GMAT.
Work Ex: Overall 3 years 9 months.
Applying for 2013 intake so roughly it will be 5 years by the time I join.

3 years of experience in Infosys, Typical IT experience with good ECs.
9 months of experience in managing our family business. Its an open air restaurant - offering different services - a kids gaming zone, veg and non veg restaurant, Ice cream/juice shop and 2 party halls. My work involves supervision, inventory management, pay roll processing and resource allocation with 80+ employees working along with us.
What I want to do ?
I want to start my own consulting firm few years down the line (A gist of my idea - to offer business process solutions for SMEs and Business Plan consulting for startups). So I intend to do an MBA with specialization in entrepreneurship. Work for 3 - 5 years in any consulting firm, which offers consulting services for SMEs, in India to gain some industry experience and then start my own firm.
So thats all about me and what I need to know is
1. Which Business schools based on GMAT score would suit my requirements ?
2. I don't have problem in doing it abroad, but considering the cost, ROI it seems I need to work for at least 3 to 5 years over there and how good are the job opportunities over there (Particularly US) for Indians ? I am little bit skeptical in investing so much money when I plan to get back to India as early as possible. Any advice on this would be very much appreciated.
3. Any other Good Indian programs in Entrepreneurship - non GMAT based, which will also help me land in consulting firm post MBA ?

Thanks a lot in Advance.




Regards,
msv87
1198
Seniors please offer some guidance in my case
My profile goes like this

xth --90.4%
xiith--82%
B.Tech -Electrical Engineering --74% in top 15 of class from a govt college
Research Work--
a)published one research paper in an international journal during my 3rd year
as independent researcher
b)another paper has been accepted for publication and is in process of being published Final year.

Good Extra curriculars on national level.

I am consistently scoring above 310 in my GRE mocks
and i am keen to pursue MS in Finance/Masters in mangt. from LSE,HEC paris,ETH .
1:- plz suggest some good institutes to pursue above courses.
2:- Does one need to his undergrad course in Economics or finance to pursue these courses .
3:- Is Prior work-ex necessary for these courses
4:- Should one belong to reputed indian colleges like IIT's,NIT's to be accepted.

I may sound naive but a good ROI is necessary because of financial restraints in my family.

Respect


The positives in your application:
- Good Marks
- Publications in International Journals (it differentiates you from the rest of the engg crowd, for the mgmt programmes which look for a 'wow' factor)

The not so positives:
- Lack of branding (can be overcome - high GMAT, CFA L1 if you're interested in Finance, relevant experience, perhaps the publications). I know of people who've cracked these schools without branded Indian schools for UG.

While I am not pursuing these programs, I might in the near future, and have done in depth research on them. I have friends/acquaintances at LSE, HEC, LBS, ESADE, ESCP, Oxbridge. An economics/finance background is not a must, but helps depending on your career goals. Why not start on the CFA (if you're aiming at Financial Markets/Portoflio Management/Research). MIT, Vanderbildt offer MFin in the US. Schulich offers an MFin, UToronto offers an MFE, Waterloo offers a Masters in Quant Finance. In the UK you have LSE which offer a mix & match of programs (MSc Mgmt, MSc Mgmt & Strategy, MSc Finance, MSc Fin Math, MSc Finance & Economics, MSc Acct & Finance). Each of those programs places into some specific roles (You'll find Fin Math, Fin & Eco people pursuing S&T;/Quant Finance, which Acct & Finance folks usually dont). You might even want to consider the Engg Mgmt programmes at Duke, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, etc. They place well in Techno Managerial positions, and I know of a couple of people who're on Derivatives desks at Bulge Bracket I Banks.

The feedback I have received from my friends is that it is extremely difficult to crack a good job in this current market as an immigrant without experience/internships/skill sets. This might sound paradoxical, considering that most of these programs do not require work experience. However, if you read the fine print, you'll realize that they take in people with 0-1 years of experience. So obviously, if you have 1 year of relevant experience, it is an edge.

Another thing I have noticed is that you've included a wide array of programmes on your wishlist. I'd suggest that you first figure out what you want to do and then accordingly make your decision. There's loads in Finance - 1) Investment Banking/M&A;/Private Equity (the deal guys) 2) The Markets guys (S&T;, Prop Traders, Certain Hedge Fund Strategies) 3) Quant Finance (This is where you head into Fin Engg territory, CMU offers MSCF & UCB's MFE are good programmes, don't expect to get in with a plain vanilla MiM, you'll work with PhDs in Math/Phy). Beyond finance, there's consulting, product management and loads of other stuff. I suggest you read the vault guides - get them at gen.lib.rus.ec; they will help you narrow down.

If you want to do IB or Quant Finance, CFA won't be of much help. It'll help you with Portfolio Management/Research oriented roles.

As far as the RoI is concerned, most programmes at B schools cost a lot. And ofcourse there are visa issues. However, afaik it is possible to get scholarships at European schools (Non UK), who're trying hard to diversify their class profile (I know folks who've gotten 50%+ rides at HEC, ESCP). The only cheap programmes I know of are ETH, Waterloo and Stockholm School of Economics.
1199


I was searching and reading your other posts on this thread. You asked me an important question about what my career goal is ? Well, I am inclined towards pursuing a role in marketing and that is what i wish to target as a function.

Now I read some of your other posts and noticed you saying that in order to excel in marketing one needs to master the local cultural nuances and the local language.

1) As far as french goes I have started my preparations , but would your earlier advise change knowing that my interest is towards marketing ? Would 3 years time be sufficient enough to build skills required to thrive in such a role abroad ? If not, what are the ways you suggest i can work to get past them. And given all the variables it it really worth making the decision to go and study abroad given into consideration that this would probably be my life's most important decision yet ?

2) I have been starting to question the prospect of spending another 2 years to study. My frame of mind is getting more inclined towards wealth creation rather than studying further. to be honest i was working with a very big reputed MNC as an associate software engineer but quit because of lack if interest. I dont have any stellar job offer with me at the moment .This is one big reason why my father is really keen for me to take up escp and wants my studies to finish together and early! I just want to ask you If after having worked really really hard in getting this scholarship offer from escp all these recent thoughts are normal or does this signal towards a different path that is my true calling.

Thanks again for your time and let me know if there's another way I can reach out to you as my deadlines are approaching .

Best ,
abformba


1. Yes, I think 2 years in an academic & social setting + a year of internship will help bring your skills in French to business usage levels, where you will be able to read, write, speak and articulate your thoughts in French.

Marketing requires a cultural understanding of the client / consumer environment. In B2C industries, this is mandatory. In the B2B environment, it's less so but still important. Trying for a marketing job with a B2C company like L'Oreal, PPM, Nestl will be a very difficult sell, but a business analyst role in a B2B company like Alstom or EADS may be more within reach; because you might be able to leverage that start into a marketing job with these companies particularly as they grow in emerging economies like India.

Look at the list of companies I provided you with and see whether the big B2B players in the list have ESCP Alumni working there, and whether these companies come to recruit in the ESCP. Over the course of study, try and understand through networking and interactions with fellow students and faculty which of these companies have a lot of growth projects and initiatives in areas like India & Asia-Pacific. Those are the ones you want to target, by selling a few things about yourself:

- a bi-lingual (French & English), French Grand Ecole educated, person from an emerging market with a basic Engineering(?) education.
- your 50% scholarship, which is not to be scoffed at. Use it sensibly.

It's all about preparation. Most students like yourself will not have the fortune of the scholarship and the one-year compulsory internship. Use both to help you prepare for the long career ahead.

2. You're right. You must've worked hard to deserve the scholarship. I think you're in a better place than you give yourself credit for. Work hard to build the right relationships and networks early on in the program (like I've suggested above). The career will follow. Stay disciplined, stay hungry, stay diligent. Work hard, and work on your French.

Seems your heart is set on going.

All the best
Baccardisprite
1200
riginally Posted by despicable
Hi Everyone,

My question here, is to all the experienced Puys, already cleared CFA L1/L2 or working in finance or as an analyst.

" CFA is of no use for Unemployed graduates(engineers) seeking a career change. I will fetch you simply no job or do you no good! "

This is a statement given to me by a well known CA with 20yr experience.

I am now again all confused .. whether to stop my CFA L1 preps fur June 12'?

Please Comment,
Really need some gyaan here..

Regards
Despicable
Any, comments would be really valuable for all CFA aspirants and would lead them to do something more worthwhile with their time and money.

PS : I am a Mechanical Engineer, from BITS, Graduated in 2011.
Long term goal : Investment banking analyst via the MiM route.


I'm a BITS dual degree student graduating in 2012. Taking L1 in June 2012. I know another guy in the same situation who had the foresight to take L1 in Dec 2011, and will be done with L2 before graduating.

I've been jobhunting, and trust me, CFA can open a lot of doors. I had 3 headhunters tell me that I'd be a perfect candidate if I had cleared L1 and could join immediately. (Still doing my 2nd PS) In India, Investment KPOs love Fresher/0-1 years Tier 1 Engg pursuing CFA dudes.

Personally, I'm a fan of the CFA curriculum. Brilliantly crafted. Just the right amount of depth, while at the same time being sufficiently broad. I wouldn't care if it didn't get me an immediate boost in my career.

However, CFA doesn't help much with banking abroad. It does to some extent in India.

You should check out www.mergersandinquisitions.com for Banking, and www.lifeonthebuyside.com for CFA. Nice blogs. Also join Analystforum.com if you're interested in the CFA 😃
1201

I am based out of Erode (Tamil Nadu) currently managing our family business, further details below.
X - 81%
XII - 90%
BE - Major in ECE - 76%
Yet to take my GMAT.
Work Ex: Overall 3 years 9 months.
Applying for 2013 intake so roughly it will be 5 years by the time I join.

3 years of experience in Infosys, Typical IT experience with good ECs.
9 months of experience in managing our family business. Its an open air restaurant - offering different services - a kids gaming zone, veg and non veg restaurant, Ice cream/juice shop and 2 party halls. My work involves supervision, inventory management, pay roll processing and resource allocation with 80+ employees working along with us.
What I want to do ?
I want to start my own consulting firm few years down the line (A gist of my idea - to offer business process solutions for SMEs and Business Plan consulting for startups). So I intend to do an MBA with specialization in entrepreneurship. Work for 3 - 5 years in any consulting firm, which offers consulting services for SMEs, in India to gain some industry experience and then start my own firm.
So thats all about me and what I need to know is
1. Which Business schools based on GMAT score would suit my requirements ?
2. I don't have problem in doing it abroad, but considering the cost, ROI it seems I need to work for at least 3 to 5 years over there and how good are the job opportunities over there (Particularly US) for Indians ? I am little bit skeptical in investing so much money when I plan to get back to India as early as possible. Any advice on this would be very much appreciated.
3. Any other Good Indian programs in Entrepreneurship - non GMAT based, which will also help me land in consulting firm post MBA ?

Thanks a lot in Advance.




Regards,
msv87


Not only is it an interesting profile, but clear career goals and a low resistance , sensible pathway to get there - which I hope will reflect in your application essays as well. Cuch clarity will help you in your career. I would suggest you work on GMAT preparations and try your best to hit 740-750, which would round off a very good profile.

1. To hit consulting, you need to go to a school where consultants of all kinds recruit in numbers - US Top 20, INSEAD, LBS, IESE etc... These schools will have not only the conventional strat & ops consultants, consulting clubs and career services geared to help you get recruited by the consulting firms, but will also have alumni in specifically the areas you're looking at (SME, Start-up consulting, associated advisory).

2. Function of economy and the availability of opportunity. IF the US does take through the under-discussion policy to extend the OPT period to 2 years instead of just one, that's a huge fillip to an unencumbered job search. The best way is to position yourself ahead of competition and find the path of least resistance. Your academic grades are good, hopefully you have a good GMAT, will achieve some impactful results to grow your current business, and get a scholarship to attend your MBA, you might not have to worry about the ROI at all!

3. Given your specific entrepreneurial ambitions, you might want to look at Babson's Olin school for their 2 year MBA. This is NOT a US Top 10, but a very well known school for budding entrepreneurs of any kind. An excellent GMAT score, your profile and career goals might position you for one of many scholarships in the school (check website). You might want to choose something like MIT-Sloan, Kellogg, Haas-Berkeley, and Babson. All will offer consulting & entrepreneurial opportunity of the kind you seek.

You're in a better place than you think.

All the best
Baccardisprite