Who will make better Investment Bankers? Financial Analyst with some experience or an MBA from a good institute?
@jamiroquai :- i am working in one of the reputed proprietary trading firms in india as a derivatives trader.... i would be applying for MBA in the colleges mentioned by you... would my work ex as a trader would help me in anyway for grabbing a job at any i-bank in india??
Could you rate the Equity research & IB courses from:
Corporate Bridge Academy
NSE Certification course
(or suggest any other alternative)
in terms of course content and recognition (vis-a-vis employment opportunituy). I am looking at starting a career in equity research & IB and need to make a decision within the next 2 days.
HELP!
PS: i intend to do CFA or MBA fin eventually.
Equity Research and IB are poles apart. I don't think there are short term courses being offered in India that are any good from an IB perspective. That being said, you're probably looking at equity research - for which this is not really the right thread.
nillbill SaysWho will make better Investment Bankers? Financial Analyst with some experience or an MBA from a good institute?
In the long run, the guy who puts in the hours and is really really smart.
Note: I have seen dumb FAs and dumb MBAs. Those guys are obviously going nowhere.
pratskool Says@jamiroquai :- i am working in one of the reputed proprietary trading firms in india as a derivatives trader.... i would be applying for MBA in the colleges mentioned by you... would my work ex as a trader would help me in anyway for grabbing a job at any i-bank in india??
it possibly might. you'll get into MM banks only - and that too after being able to demonstrate your understanding of corporate finance.
however, you'll be at an advantage compared to an ordinary candidate with non-finance workex.
If you looking for a career in IB/ER, I would suggest to definitely do an MBA from a good B-school. There are short term certifications that u can also do. visit this -
mod note: advertising not allowed here.
they have course and certifications in ER and I-banking
could someone please suggest me which ncfm certifications will be good for cracking into investment banking along with mba finance.?how to go about the same?
In the long run, the guy who puts in the hours and is really really smart.
Note: I have seen dumb FAs and dumb MBAs. Those guys are obviously going nowhere.
Thanks for your reply.
I had another query. I am working currently as an Audit Assistant (Internal Audit) for a mid-sized firm. Initially i was not very sure about what i wanted to pursue but after much deliberation i want to enter the field of Investment Banking.
The problem is that my past acads are very average. I am currently pursuing my CA Final.
I am facing a dilema. I have found out about a 2 year course offered by CRISIL after the completion of which i can join them as an analyst. Currently CRISIL does not have an Investment Banking Division but they are planning to start one in the near future.
My query is that is the course worth it? i.e. will the experience at CRISIL help me in getting into a BB firm in the Future, or is it better if i do an MBA after my CA? What if i am not able to complete my CA in first attempt will it affect my prospects very adversely? I know it is annoying for you to answer questions about courses being offered by various Institutions but i would really appreciate it if you could reply.
regards.
it possibly might. you'll get into MM banks only - and that too after being able to demonstrate your understanding of corporate finance.
however, you'll be at an advantage compared to an ordinary candidate with non-finance workex.
thanx 4 ur reply... wat r MM banks?? please elaborate on dis..
pratskool Saysthanx 4 ur reply... wat r MM banks?? please elaborate on dis..
MM = middle market. The main difference between the two is quite literally the fact that the deal size is smaller than the deals that bulge brackets do. This distinction is also used in Private Equity where MM PE =
Middle market can also handle fairly high profile deals, especially if you work at a place like Houlihan Lokey, Jeffries, etc. but generally, the mega, front-page deals will be handled by the BBs + elite boutiques. Since the deal sizes are bigger and banks are literally compensated on a % * size of deal basis, BBs typically pay more since they earn more $$$ per deal. However, if you just want to work in M&A;, still want a good (perhaps not outlandish salary, but still damn good especially if you're a rainmaker) salary, then MM is not a bad choice at all. The hours can sometimes be more relaxed as well, but realize that the pay/prestige may not be there.
EDIT: I forgot to add, given that deal sizes are larger, BBs may also deal with more "complicated" deals (larger companies = more difficulties when trying to combine), but most of the people I've talked to in the industry say that the main thing that differs between big v small deals is the number of zeros on their models.
^J-man, correct me if I'm wrong about any of that.
hey
i recently discovered this thread, seems to be a gold mine of info.
I completed my BE in Mech Engg a few months ago from a top 15 college in India, working as analyst in a Big4 consultancy firm while i contemplate my career.
I am interested in getting into front office for BB in Investment Banking. while consulting with friends/family and seniors at work/college/etc and reading through this thread, i have a few queries of my own and i hope you will be able to provide me some insight.
Am i right in the assumption that doing an MS in Finance from US may not be sufficient for me to get a front office role in a BB?
I was given the following advice a week ago:
Do CFA level I and prep for the next 2 levels, at same time, after a year of work ex, apply as analyst at some of the BB IBD present in India (mumbai to be specific) and hope to get in. Work for 3-4 years, then proceed abroad for an MBA from a good uni which would give me enough scope to be placed as an associate at a BB IBD once i'm done.
How futile does this plan seem? considering its almost impossible for undergrads to get analyst positions at IBD's (or so i've heard).
and secondly, what is the selection procedure for SBICAPS? is it through an exam like how the bank PO exam is conducted?
thanks in advance for your replies, hope my post isn't too long.
hey
i recently discovered this thread, seems to be a gold mine of info.
I completed my BE in Mech Engg a few months ago from a top 15 college in India, working as analyst in a Big4 consultancy firm while i contemplate my career.
I am interested in getting into front office for BB in Investment Banking. while consulting with friends/family and seniors at work/college/etc and reading through this thread, i have a few queries of my own and i hope you will be able to provide me some insight.
Am i right in the assumption that doing an MS in Finance from US may not be sufficient for me to get a front office role in a BB?
I was given the following advice a week ago:
How futile does this plan seem? considering its almost impossible for undergrads to get analyst positions at IBD's (or so i've heard).
and secondly, what is the selection procedure for SBICAPS? is it through an exam like how the bank PO exam is conducted?
thanks in advance for your replies, hope my post isn't too long.
CFA + masters in finance are not that useful for M&A; banking. Masters in Finance are generally fairly quant-intensive programs and you don't need those kind of skills for M&A.; The CFA is also not very useful as it is more geared toward equity research/hedge funds. It might give you a line item on your resume, but it definitely won't get you a job. Your best bet would be getting into a top MBA from India/US and getting recruited on campus. If you want to do S&T;/quant hedge funds, however, then the Masters in Finance would help, and if you want to do ER, the CFA is a must have basically. That's not to say that a quant program will PRECLUDE you from getting an M&A; gig, it's just not cost/time effective.
Also, the above comments may be untrue if you want to do a non-quantitative Masters in Finance at a place like LSE (I believe they have a non-quantitative MSF program). That would be very useful for getting into i-banks.
@ Jamiroquai :-
Sir, one of my friends quit his IB job saying he found the work unethical. I was really shocked coz though I am still an undergrad, I aspire of working as an I banker in my later years. Please throw some light on this. I mean it can be strenuous but certainly not unethical? I know this is a bit off track and may seem a bit stupid to many here but I ll be really thankful if you or anyone could reply. Thanks a lot.
If you dream of doing something, don't let what anyone else says sway you off what you want to do. I've seen the underbelly of the bank and can tell you that most firms now have levers you can pull to stop any unethical practice you see.
Hi,
Thanks for your response. It's funny that you mention asking WHY I want to do M&A; and I'm already having second thoughts. Right now, I'm working with a very, very, very small, non-investment banking company in the M&A; department, and this stuff isn't as cool as I thought it would be
. It seems like a lot of BS assumptions and you can basically can value any company you want at anything just by tweaking a few projections. Not as cool as I thought it would be.
What I thought I would enjoy about the job more was the rainmaking aspect. Although I dislike PURE sales (i.e. I would be TERRIBLE at used car sales), I do like pushing my ideas upon people/persuasive speaking, but I also like to use numbers/research to back up my claims. I couldn't just try and dupe people into buying things (hence why I am avoiding wealth management/financial sales LIKE THE PLAGUE), but convincing people to do business with me based on some numbers/research is appealing, which is why I thought I'd enjoy M&A;, especially since trading was out due to my lack of quant skills. I am also heavily considering management consulting in the strategy area.
Therefore, I have to ask what you like about other groups (i.e. Lev Fin, DCM, ECM)? Do you still work with numbers/do some modeling (people on here, be VERY sure you enjoy modeling! It's not as cool as it sounds!!!), or is it purely selling? Also, what exactly does lev fin do? I know it deals with getting PE sourcing and can still lead to PE exits, but what skills do you feel you learn from it and how big is it in India? Sorry if you already answered this already in the thread, btw, I must have missed it (this is a looong thread).I liked restructuring BECAUSE of the legal aspects, actually. I know its also a lot of accounting, but my friend is in restructuring at blackstone and raves about the work he does there relative to M&A.;
As far as being a novelty hire, won't I still have to go through an interview so that they know that I'm not a complete moron? And for the record, I do know what depreciation is and can answer just about every q in the M&I; guide (haven't gone through everything still though) 
Also, just a general Q to any audience member, does anyone know if the major consulting firms recruit in India at the UG level and how tough it is to get into those? I might have a couple of contacts at BCG/McKinsey, so how much will their referrals help?
Hi Jamiroquai
Great effort i must say...
I'm a Bachelors in Business Economics graduate from DU (2010)..forced to join a so called KPO for a year 
...i've just appeared for CFA L1 in june...the question is that i cant just walk in to the streets of mumbai looking for a IB opportunity.
For the records i'm not based in mumbai evn.
as you mentioned that IB starts from analyst...puttin aside all the BB and boutique filters...can u advice me somethin as to how to get in IB analyst post...like how to target IBs and which ones to do exactly....
i'm on no mood for MBA until 2 yrs...
have just quit my so called research job....now i want to start as an analyst IB...
so a little help would be appreciated...
@jamiroquai
You had mentioned earlier in that the big banks recruit only 4m the best B-schools in India. But some say they recruit exclusively and only from iim A/B/C. Is it true.
If not can u list out the institutes ver they(bulge bracket) do recruit ( bcos IIFT is not mentioned anywhere).
Last query, is a 1.5-2 yr experience in an IT company(Accenture) a disadvantage when it boils down to recruiting the best students.
@jamiroquai 
from which coll did u do the eng and how did u get into the work profile(that u had before mba)? ( i mean how did u get into finance related stuff straight out of eng coll which eventually made enter into cornell coz ur work ex was very much differnt from the regular eng work experience 
)
i did read ur profile on this thread bt was unable to understand from which eng u were coz of the short form ( although i myself is frm comp eng and want to enter i-banking from sardar patel institute of technology affiliated to mumbai univ:w00t: )
@jamiroquai
from which coll did u do the eng and how did u get into the work profile(that u had before mba)? ( i mean how did u get into finance related stuff straight out of eng coll which eventually made enter into cornell coz ur work ex was very much differnt from the regular eng work experience)
i did read ur profile on this thread bt was unable to understand from which eng u were coz of the short form ( although i myself is frm comp eng
i got my engineering degree from a school affiliated to mumbai univ. that being said, i landed my investment banking job in a unique confluence of circumstances that i am pretty sure doesn't regularly repeat itself. Lets just say that it was 10% my effort and 90% extraneous circumstances.
@jamiroquai
You had mentioned earlier in that the big banks recruit only 4m the best B-schools in India. But some say they recruit exclusively and only from iim A/B/C. Is it true.
yes. some stick to just A & C to maintain the exclusivity.
If not can u list out the institutes ver they(bulge bracket) do recruit ( bcos IIFT is not mentioned anywhere).
While IIFT is very tough to get in and it's grads have done pretty well, unfortunately, it doesn't have any standing in the top 10 mba schools in india. For BB banking, I would look at the top 3 schools. For MM, you can look at the top 20 schools.
Last query, is a 1.5-2 yr experience in an IT company(Accenture) a disadvantage when it boils down to recruiting the best students.
I don't think so. You're treated as a fresher would be treated.