Investment Banking in India and Abroad

Jobs & Careers
66
childprodigy Says
...once we join as analysts, after how long do we get promoted to the next level.. and so on... thanx in advance!!!


Analysts (3 year program)
--> To Associate (if you're a star)
--> To MBA school

Associate
--> To VP (if you're awesome, after 3 years)

VP
--> To MD (if you're super star potential, after 3 years)
67
Hi

Could you shed some light on the terms "Applied finance" and "financial modelling"? And I mean without the jargon and fancy language.

Thanks


you can figure this stuff out on Investopedia
68
hey Jamiroquai so the only colleges worth IB in India are IIM A,B,C,L XLRI ISB ?
no other ones ? pls mention if any exist apart from what I have mentioned.
what abt JBIMS?

P.S. just trying to confirm. After all it is going to be a life changing decision!!


You can read my rationale and advice in the previous posts on the same thread.
69

Hey Jamiroquai, your 2 cents on Proprietory Trading industry in the world and specifically in India ???

70

Can u tell me which of the BB firm visited XLRI last year
i saw only 2 sbi and morgan

71

I got another question. How big are the groups in a BB type bank in Mumbai compared to a boutique ?

A little of topic- I'm not terribly into getting an IBD job. I know the numbers when you get your 1st pay will make you on top of the world. I'd rather work in a value oriented hedge fund where valuation and financial modelling really make more sense. Of course there's PE but im not sure how managing portfolio Cos. might be.


I'd rather work 15 hrs reading/ searching what drives value in a Co. & why the market may or may not reflect it.

i-banking here is already over-hyped. It doesn't take long to let the cool factor evaporate once you realise the shit youre in after consecutive long hours. ( read monkey business)

Of course i might be wrong on all what i said above.

This leads me to another question, Jamiroquai - How did you handle the why banking question ?
( question is one of the simple yet hard ones that tell so much about the prospective ANALyst)

72
Jamiroquai Says
you can figure this stuff out on Investopedia


All I understood was that financial modeling involves creation of a mathematical model which is used to predict something or the other.

Are these models created by those guys holding PHDs from top univs?

Do the GRCs just do the number crunching with specified inputs and provide the outputs?

And I've found nothing on applied finance, sorry. Some people have quoted this as part of their work in their summer internship. Din't know what to make of it.
73
sir can you suggest me what kinda a job shall i look forward to after my graduation??? i am not from srcc or cbs, so will have to apply off campus!!!
edit: i am currently pursuing bachelors of business economics from the university of delhi


plzzz reply!!!
74
childprodigy Says
plzzz reply!!!


i don't know what kind of credit your school gets and therefore i can't really say what kind of undergrad jobs you can look for. you would typically want something related to financial services and brokerage - but depending on your school, the jobs you can get after graduation vary.

However, if you're looking to get workex before your MBA -pick a job, any job - and do well in it. Do really well. Then go do well in your GMAT / CAT and show the consistency one would associate with your screen name.
75
ABCLIKS Says
Hey Jamiroquai, your 2 cents on Proprietory Trading industry in the world and specifically in India ???


Sorry, am no expert on prop-trading or Sales & Trading (affectionately called S&T;)

However, I can tell you this - you earn way more money than bankers in the form of bonuses when the market is good and suffer job losses like the plague (way worse than bankers) when the market tanks. A very high beta career move.

On the plus side, S&T; requires no language skills, no ass-kissing ever and is geographically-independent. You can work anywhere in the world if you got mad trading skills.
77
I got another question. How big are the groups in a BB type bank in Mumbai compared to a boutique ?

ranges from a 50:1 to a 100:1 ratio


A little of topic- I'm not terribly into getting an IBD job. I know the numbers when you get your 1st pay will make you on top of the world.

It does


I'd rather work in a value oriented hedge fund where valuation and financial modelling really make more sense.

I don't understand how you believe that valuation and financial modelling make more sense in a value-oriented hedge fund. Very few hedge funds operate purely on intrinsic value estimates.


Of course there's PE but im not sure how managing portfolio Cos. might be.

One thing is for sure - it's really tough to get into


I'd rather work 15 hrs reading/ searching what drives value in a Co. & why the market may or may not reflect it.

Well, you're then talking about being a part of equity research. Of course, as an M&A; or restructuring banker, you'd spend a LOT of time understanding what drives value in a company and trying to compute intrinsic value


i-banking here is already over-hyped. It doesn't take long to let the cool factor evaporate once you realise the shit youre in after consecutive long hours. ( read monkey business)

Sure is. I blame Mr. Big (from Sex & the City) for making it seem like all i-bankers are super rich and have corner offices with views of the skyline. :lookround: The only way you spot the skyline in NYC is as your flight takes off! However, if you're talking HF or PE, be prepared to spend even longer hours (is that even possible??!) in the office. In fact, any profession that pays big money usually demands a large part of your waking hours. (Unless it's "papa's business" :drinking: - damn, do i wish my papa had a business...)


...

This leads me to another question, Jamiroquai - How did you handle the why banking question ?
( question is one of the simple yet hard ones that tell so much about the prospective ANALyst)


Never was asked it before. Especially since I was a banker for quite a bit now - I don't usually get that question.
78
I don't understand how you believe that valuation and financial modelling make more sense in a value-oriented hedge fund. Very few hedge funds operate purely on intrinsic value estimates.


What i meant is working at a fundamental HF. But they seem to be few and far between in India. :(

But investing in alternate assets like real estate in Mumbai could beat even PE returns.
79
Sklar Says
... But investing in alternate assets like real estate in Mumbai could beat even PE returns.


Uh-huh... There are two things you are ignoring when you say something like this: (1) Risk-Return profile and the actual intricacy of risk associated with RE-investments (2) RE-based PE funds which are dime-a-dozen in Mumbai

Also, I don't get where you're taking this discussion which is primarily an IB-based discussion. I feel like you're drawing the discussion into a IB v/s PE v/s HF (v/s REIT?)

I would seriously encourage you to post your queries on the Intrinsic Value Hedge Fund thread on PG.
80
Uh-huh... There are two things you are ignoring when you say something like this: (1) Risk-Return profile and the actual intricacy of risk associated with RE-investments


Could you please explain this ? i'm sure many people here would like to understand what it means.

Also, I don't get where you're taking this discussion which is primarily an IB-based discussion. I feel like you're drawing the discussion into a IB v/s PE v/s HF (v/s REIT?)


Relax. I'll post more questions about IB in India and the like. I always thought that getting into IB is for the exit Ops. In India (correct me if i'm wrong) the culture is more about making it to MD.

Yes i know this discussion is not about exit ops. in ibanking.
81
Could you please explain this ? i'm sure many people here would like to understand what it means.

This is still an IB thread. It hasn't turned into a finance thread or an RE thread.


Relax. I'll post more questions about IB in India and the like...

Makes me look like I'm desperate for questions...
82
i don't know what kind of credit your school gets and therefore i can't really say what kind of undergrad jobs you can look for. you would typically want something related to financial services and brokerage - but depending on your school, the jobs you can get after graduation vary.

However, if you're looking to get workex before your MBA -pick a job, any job - and do well in it. Do really well. Then go do well in your GMAT / CAT and show the consistency one would associate with your screen name.


well.. sir my academic record has been decent.
10th 92.20(cbse)
12th 86.80(cbse)
grad :
now the prob is that my grad college isnt considered to be a very good one.. So the DU tag, and the Acads are the only assets i have..
can you plzzz suggest me some companies whr i can apply for a job after my graduation?? most of the IB firms in india demand an mba finance even for the post of an analyst!!!
83

Thanks, it a valuable information.

84
well.. sir my academic record has been decent.
10th 92.20(cbse)
12th 86.80(cbse)
grad 79.50(secured university ranks in two semesters... DU)
All that matters is your undergrad

now the prob is that my grad college isnt considered to be a very good one.. So the DU tag, and the Acads are the only assets i have..
The college you come from features very prominently in how they evaluate you.

can you plzzz suggest me some companies whr i can apply for a job after my graduation?? most of the IB firms in india demand an mba finance even for the post of an analyst!!!

I know - thats the sad thing that these companies take advantage of the surplus MBAs in the market to hire them as analysts. Thats why the tag of a strong b-school will boost your profile like nothing else.
85

A lot of B-schools name i-banks like nomura and JP Morgan Chase in their placement report. When considering schools like IIM K,I,L and FMS, IIT D and B, how do I find out what profiles are on offer? They name a whole load of profiles and if they mention Investment Banking it might just be in relation to SBI Capitals and not in respect of these.

Also, if these profiles (which are on offer and hopefully you would name them) are not actual I banking positions but not total back office crap either, then would there be a possibility to get into an actual i-banking position?

And please give some details about some boutique i banks in India.

Thanks

86
A lot of B-schools name i-banks like nomura and JP Morgan Chase in their placement report. When considering schools like IIM K,I,L and FMS, IIT D and B, how do I find out what profiles are on offer? They name a whole load of profiles and if they mention Investment Banking it might just be in relation to SBI Capitals and not in respect of these.

Also, if these profiles (which are on offer and hopefully you would name them) are not actual I banking positions but not total back office crap either, then would there be a possibility to get into an actual i-banking position?

And please give some details about some boutique i banks in India.

Thanks


Hi Abhi,
I don't know if I'm in a position to respond to this appropriately but here's my two cents:

With regard to placement reports and mention of BB firms recruiting for IB from the above mentioned schools, it would typically be towards the "middle office" or the CRG roles. The front-end roles go towards schools like IIM-A/B/C/XL.

Now lets split the BB into the following strata:

In year 1: Analysts would support 2 IBD groups with news runs, market research, databases, market updates and league tables. They would build company profiles, trading and transaction comparables, do basic valuation & credit analysis etc.

In Year 2 & 3: Support would be restricted to 1 IBD group with due dilligence support, pitch support etc. (S)he would do SOTP, DCF valuations etc etc. By the end of the 2nd year the analyst would move to merger modeling, put acquisition ideas and have ownership of pitch reports. At the end of 3rd year, you're either in the front office or you're out.

Now these analysts are sometimes pulled into the front office to help on execution of the transactions etc. So that's one way to move into the front end before year 3 but it's very very rare. (as I am told)

PS: Personally, I am passing out into a BB CRG role this year.

@jamiroquai... please highlight any errors/ augment the above information